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| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 10:42 #50910 | |
derbybest
274 posts |
First of all a big thanks to the devs for great sims. I'm sure that i am not the only one in this position as i cannot afford the £19.99 for a sim due to lack of funds. Would it be possible to get a licence for a month at say for example £2 which may be renewable after the time has expired - just an idea but if it was possible it would help me Chris Last edited: 07/11/2013 at 10:42 by derbybest Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 11:13 #50911 | |
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Roadrunner
111 posts |
I understand where Derbybest is coming from, but don't encourage SimSig Team to charge fees. SimSig will never be a successful commercial company. It is a hobby community and it should return to free distribution of its products. Everything SimSig does is designed to restrict distribution to all but the most die-hard fans. This is why, after 10 years, it is still only a group of 30 or so people who meet up in a pub, 2 or 3 times a year. In recent times, 4,000 have registered as members and simply walked away because SimSig ignore them. You can't expect to sell anything to your customer base if you ignore them and they don't know anything about what you are doing. Of course, SimSig MUST maintain its internal secerecy and privileges to those people that count. As a commercial software house, it fails on every aspect of business, therefore it should adopt the practices of an open and free hobby community. Perhaps it might prosper if it did so, rather than stagnate as it is doing now. Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 11:22 #50912 | |
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derbybest
274 posts |
I think SimSig is quite is quite right to charge for the sims after all a lot of work goes into them. My point was that some people like me who are not working struggle from day to day so a lump sum of say £20 is a huge amount hence the suggestion of £2 per month. In no way do i mind paying at all. As for the numbers attending meets that too is 1. Up to the individual. 2.Where the meet is (time to travel, cost etc). 3. They may be working or other family issues. Chris Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 11:52 #50913 | |
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Hpotter
205 posts |
" said:SimSig will never be a successful commercial company. It is a hobby community and it should return to free distribution of its products.I beg to differ on that, as per other organisations that have chosen to charge from the outset, were as we have only taken the choice to do this recently. Also how can you justify this? That is unless you belong to the other groups and have purchased their products, which would make you hypocritical. " said: Everything SimSig does is designed to restrict distribution to all but the most die-hard fans.Strangely enough, that would also apply to all other companies who have software etc. that is chargeable. " said: This is why, after 10 years, it is still only a group of 30 or so people who meet up in a pub, 2 or 3 times a year.Most people who come to these meets do actively do SimSig, but as for the numbers of people meet venues, that is up to the individuals who attend and the location. But more to the point, if you’re complaining about this, then why don't you come and join one of the meets, or even organise one, rather than complaining about what happens! " said: In recent times, 4,000 have registered as members and simply walked away because SimSig ignore them. You can't expect to sell anything to your customer base if you ignore them and they don't know anything about what you are doingAnd how many people have signed up for other websites etc., and that have moved on? Answer = Times change! " said: Of course, SimSig MUST maintain its internal secrecy and privileges to those people that count.If you insist, but then again, why is it that whenever a question has been posed, it's tried to be answered, surely if we were trying to be secret, then why would we be doing this in the public limelight? " said: As a commercial software house, it fails on every aspect of business; therefore it should adopt the practices of an open and free hobby community. Perhaps it might prosper if it did so, rather than stagnate as it is doing now.Well, here's a simple choice, if you don't like it how it is, then you don't have to belong to it! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: derbybest, DriverCurran, andyb0607, AndyG, Nutter, jeffh16, UKTrainMan, officer dibble, TimTamToe, NCC1701, BarryM, Signalhunter |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 12:22 #50915 | |
andyb0607
260 posts |
" said:I understand where Derbybest is coming from, but don't encourage SimSig Team to charge fees.Simple Question - If it is really that bad, why are you still here? Log in to reply The following user said thank you: UKTrainMan |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 12:28 #50916 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
I occasionally ponder my motives for charging. I ponder the thought that maybe I've made my point when I charged for the McSim. I ponder whether the income I've actually received is worth the hassle of tax returns and the like. I then read the forum I conclude that they were right, I've not and it is. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: DriverCurran, andyb0607, GoochyB |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 12:46 #50918 | |
pedroathome
916 posts |
" said:Sorry Roadrunner but I can not think of any successful companies that does not charge for it's products.... Feel free to name me some.... " said: And on a second note about attending meets, I would do, however, for the Bristol meet last year I spent the day in a theatre (In Bristol) rigging lighting all day, and for the Derby meet this time I have other plans that day. If it wasn't for this (i.e. real life getting in the way) then yea, I would attend some. And on a final note, I don't mind paying for sims if the quality is there, and any major bugs found on the sims are corrected and re-released James Last edited: 07/11/2013 at 12:47 by pedroathome Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 13:06 #50920 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
Not this again! " said: I don't think you can quantify the user base from the amount of people that turn up to the meets - There are 38 downloadable sims on the download area at present. 36 of these are in donationware. The way you make things sound is that only about 30 people bother with Simsig. Carlisle has had 2746 downloads in just shy of a year. 6 are payware you suggest that the website is failing because of these 6 sims in spite of the overwhelming numerical imbalance. Do you expect people to take this seriously? Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Javelin395, jc92, CTCThiago, AndyG, DriverCurran, TimTamToe |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 13:53 #50925 | |
jc92
3690 posts 
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I Find it a shame that Chris has suggested a solution to a problem (whether you agree with it or not) which applies a progressive stance forward, and an answer to the complaint that some people find Simsig unaffordable, yet noone appears to have provided any feedback, becuase once again, a Pointless argument has ensued from a post which has little relevant or bearing to the OP. In a vain attempt to move this thread on the correct course... I am in a position to afford Sim's as and when released, but I think Chris's idea of "rental" is a good one, although it could prove expensive as opposed to saving the £2 a month an Buying the sim permanently. I'd be interested to hear some feedback from some other members of the forum who have raised issue with the price/affordability of sim's Previously. (this is not a dig or criticism, just a statement) Joe "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following users said thank you: derbybest, JamesN, TimTamToe, Signalhunter |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 14:02 #50926 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:I Find it a shame that Chris has suggested a solution to a problem (whether you agree with it or not) which applies a progressive stance forward, and an answer to the complaint that some people find Simsig unaffordable, yet noone appears to have provided any feedback, becuase once again, a Pointless argument has ensued from a post which has little relevant or bearing to the OP.Good point. It's a question of practicalities of the Hika-shop software which only Geoff can answer. What I can say is that the license management system has a time-limitation field so it's a matter of how easy it'd be to merge systems in a secure fashion. It'd potentially be a nightmare to manage manually. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: derbybest |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 14:35 #50932 | |
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Hpotter
205 posts |
Also to note.... idea of part payment for license has been raised with Geoff. Sorry I forgot to mention that this had been done. :doh Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 14:42 #50933 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:I Find it a shame that Chris has suggested a solution to a problem (whether you agree with it or not) which applies a progressive stance forward, and an answer to the complaint that some people find Simsig unaffordable, yet noone appears to have provided any feedback, becuase once again, a Pointless argument has ensued from a post which has little relevant or bearing to the OP.Perhaps as well, if say the sim costs £20 to buy, after you've "rented" it for 10 months you have then bought it, so no longer need to pay rental? "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 14:48 #50935 | |
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derbybest
274 posts |
Just another point if this was available it would give 'members' the chance to try the sim (as apposed to a couple of min) before they buy.
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Signalhunter |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 14:58 #50938 | |
onlydjw
456 posts |
To add another thought on this subject of rental - it's often an option (using the figures previously mentioned) to buy something for £20, or "rent" it for £2 per month for say 12 months, and then it becomes yours. The extra £4 covers (or maybe doesn't cover) the extra admin, without costing you as the user a small fortune in interest. I'd be interested in your thoughts on this Chris before it gets lost in the arguing about whether SimSig should/should not charge etc. God bless, Daniel Wilson Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 15:17 #50939 | |
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derbybest
274 posts |
Thanks for your comments Daniel. My thoughts are (and this is my PERSONAL opinion). As i am not working i cannot afford £20 in one go so i am thinking if there was a way to have a monthly rental i would be able to manage that. However i like your idea that after a continuos for 12 months then the sim should become yours and i agree the overpayment should go towards admin costs. I know that i am not the only one who cannot afford these sims in one go and it would benefit others. Also it may be the case that someone may not like the sim (or be able to cope with it) and it would give these people to as i a say try before you buy sort of thing
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| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 15:21 #50940 | |
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pedroathome
916 posts |
" said:You also have to think of what PayPal charge, I know for ebay this is 20p for each transaction, which the slightly longer term would cover Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 15:22 #50941 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
How easy it would be to implement would be another matter and something I would have no idea about but I think its a reasonable suggestion. Gareth Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 16:16 #50949 | |
Temple Meads
307 posts |
" said:Just another point if this was available it would give 'members' the chance to try the sim (as apposed to a couple of min) before they buy.I do think the trial mode on payware sims should be longer - I downloaded the demo of Fenchurch St in order to see if I thought I could happily run it solo, but the trial "timed out" before anything actually happened! I'm also in a very tight financial position, so I can't justify laying out money for a sim I may not get along with, if longer trial periods were available I would most likely end up purchasing a sim or two. Username TIM in multiplayer Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 16:46 #50951 | |
GeoffM
6377 posts
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The trial period should be longer but I haven't worked out why it's longer for some people yet times out very quickly for others. Renting is theoretically possible - I know PayPal supports subscriptions which is kind of similar. I would have a concern that the first payment would be made, the license issued, and then no further payments made. As for whether SimSig would ever be successful... it already is. Marylebone compensated me adequately for the hours spent on it. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following users said thank you: welwyn, Nutter |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 16:48 #50952 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:The trial period should be longer but I haven't worked out why it's longer for some people yet times out very quickly for others.Could you tie the Paypal subscription into generating a time bombed license each month? "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 16:51 #50955 | |
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derbybest
274 posts |
You could have a dated license
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| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 16:52 #50956 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Roadrunner/Aaron/Kieran, I find it really annoying and extremely disappointing** that you're still harping on with your apparent personal and seemingly solo tirade against SimSig, a signalling simulation which is evident from you regularly hosting "KX FREEWARE" (actually, it's donationware... and I'd rather if you didn't unnecessarily shout....) you are quite happy to play again and again, despite your nigh-on unrelenting constant negativity towards it -- somewhat contradictory, no?!! " said: In recent times, 4,000 have registered as membersActually it's 5,400+ nowadays. :whistle: " said: and simply walked away because SimSig ignore them. You can't expect to sell anything to your customer base if you ignore them and they don't know anything about what you are doing.I don't see that being the case?! I also don't see yourself being ignored, nor anyone else?!! " said: Of course, SimSig MUST maintain its internal secerecy and privileges to those people that count.Actually, if you've ever took the time to look around you may find things that might surprise you. Case in point: the manual for the KingsX simulation on the Wiki had mentions of the new version under test whilst it was so, and furthermore the manual included details of the added features (e.g.: Platform 0 at King's Cross station; the new flyover at Hitchin; etc.). How can you still carry on claiming this secrecy nonsense?!! " said: SimSig will never be a successful commercial company.A check just now with Companies House shows that there is no active company registered with them by the name of SimSig?! " said: As a commercial software house, it fails on every aspect of business, therefore it should adopt the practices of an open and free hobby community. Perhaps it might prosper if it did so, rather than stagnate as it is doing now.As has been stated now more times* than I have had a pint of Guinness; not all future simulations will be charged for. At-least one developer has stated no plans whatsoever in the pipeline to charge for any of his simulations, and another has even mentioned his intention to refresh his previously released simulations (even mentioning them by name) and keep them free of charge! Furthermore, you are undoubtedly aware [but possibly refusing to acknowledge or even say thanks for] that of the 9 simulations very recently re-released (refreshed to loader versions) 7 of these remain as donationware - that's a staggering 78%(!)[sup][1][/sup]. Of what is currently (at the time of me typing out and submitting this post) 37 simulations released, only six of these are payware. That works out at a mere 16%(!)[sup][2][/sup] meaning 84% of SimSig simulations are donationware. Compare that to alternatives to SimSig and.... well........ [1] = 77.77777777777779% precisely; figure above rounded up. [2] = 16.216216216216218% precisely; figure above rounded down. * = I have never actually had a pint of Guinness; only ever having the odd sip of it now and again. ** = I find it even more disappointing considering how, back when I first ventured into the world of multiplay sessions of SimSig, you were actually the very first host I joined. Back then you were kind, friendly, helpful, considerate, etc.; what happened? I'm still ever so slightly bitter about this.... Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Last edited: 07/11/2013 at 22:44 by UKTrainMan Reason: figure correction Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Noisynoel, GoochyB |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 17:10 #50959 | |
postal
5265 posts |
The trouble with the rental until you've paid enough for it to become yours is that you start getting into the ramifications of the Consumer Credit Act. I would have thought we have enough problems with barrack room lawyers and the awkward squad already without giving them further ammunition. However, if it could be set up properly (and also without creating an onerous admin task for Geoff or whoever) then it sounds like a good idea. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 17:46 #50964 | |
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slatteryc
254 posts |
Hah. I'm just trying to imagine Simsig as freemium "pay £1.00 now and watch the engine attach to the train !" etc Log in to reply |
| Payware sims 07/11/2013 at 17:50 #50965 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:I occasionally ponder my motives for charging.Just for info I'm not planning to charge for my next release; though I may yet change my mind. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |