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| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 08:52 #3078 | |
Backup
89 posts |
Hello everyone! I'd like to ask for your help: A friend (and at least one colleague) has been instructed to attend a conference in Europe by their employer. Starting in the North-Western UK on a particular summer Friday morning, they need to be in Zagreb, Croatia by Sunday noon. That's the easy part. The bosses have specified (as a team-building exercise, or possibly just sadism) that they must, during the combined outward and return journeys, utilise 6 different modes of transport and pass through 10 countries *. It seems logical that (high-speed) rail is the backbone of any solution. We have already identified (WCML to London / Eurostar to Amsterdam / overnight sleeper train direct to Zurich) as one possiblity to easily 'rack up' several countries and cover ground quickly (in addition, hopefully giving them some terrific alpine scenery), which puts them over halfway there by early Saturday morning. But: does anyone have ideas for alternative routes or onward travel? You see, I don't know the continental (high-speed) rail arteries, and don't want to route them into a relative 'dead-end'**; forcing them to waste time waiting or backtracking, instead of turning wheels/covering ground. It's not made any easier by having to cross-reference several different national-railway sites, ferry sites, plane sites, and all the rest. Notes: They need to submit route plans for approval soon. Any input will be gratefully received; websites / routes / suggestions / advice / prior experience / anything. * I don't work there; but I believe asking me (and by extension the SimSig crowd) for help is permissible as 'utilising available assets & expertise' or some such leadership jargon). ** By that, I mean arriving somewhere with infrequent onward services, or a terminus station; no offence intended. Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 08:52 #15986 | |
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Backup
89 posts |
Hello everyone! I'd like to ask for your help: A friend (and at least one colleague) has been instructed to attend a conference in Europe by their employer. Starting in the North-Western UK on a particular summer Friday morning, they need to be in Zagreb, Croatia by Sunday noon. That's the easy part. The bosses have specified (as a team-building exercise, or possibly just sadism) that they must, during the combined outward and return journeys, utilise 6 different modes of transport and pass through 10 countries *. It seems logical that (high-speed) rail is the backbone of any solution. We have already identified (WCML to London / Eurostar to Amsterdam / overnight sleeper train direct to Zurich) as one possiblity to easily 'rack up' several countries and cover ground quickly (in addition, hopefully giving them some terrific alpine scenery), which puts them over halfway there by early Saturday morning. But: does anyone have ideas for alternative routes or onward travel? You see, I don't know the continental (high-speed) rail arteries, and don't want to route them into a relative 'dead-end'**; forcing them to waste time waiting or backtracking, instead of turning wheels/covering ground. It's not made any easier by having to cross-reference several different national-railway sites, ferry sites, plane sites, and all the rest. Notes: They need to submit route plans for approval soon. Any input will be gratefully received; websites / routes / suggestions / advice / prior experience / anything. * I don't work there; but I believe asking me (and by extension the SimSig crowd) for help is permissible as 'utilising available assets & expertise' or some such leadership jargon). ** By that, I mean arriving somewhere with infrequent onward services, or a terminus station; no offence intended. Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 08:58 #15987 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
Bus/coach as another mode of transport? Might only need a short trip to count? Or maybe tram, eg use tram in Manchester to connect with WCML. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 09:15 #15988 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
You say North Western UK - do you mean England? Do Scotland and/or Wales count a separate countries for this excercise? You can of course travel across the North Sea to Holland from Rosyth, Newcastle or Hull which may increase the country count. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 10:30 #15989 | |
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Backup
89 posts |
Thanks Andy. You've made me realise that London might be ideal to make a bus connection (between Euston and St. Pancreas); saving underground (if that even counts seperately) and/or taxi options for elsewhere. I shall research further. Thanks Pete (and Sorry if anyone offended), I should have said NW England. Yes, Wales & Scotland count seperately. One rough idea was to fly back via Scotland, then WCML south to home (+1 Nation, and fairly fast). While ferries are a good idea to +1 the Modes; AFAIK, Eurostar could score England, France, Belgium and Netherlands on the same train, possibly faster than a ferry (with +2 Nations). Additional detail: I'm suggesting they save 'delay-prone' Modes for the return leg, such as Air (security check in) and Ferry (vulnerable to weather); rather than risk missing the conference opening. The real challenges seem to be in central Europe. Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 10:44 #15990 | |
northroad
872 posts |
Does an embassy count as a country. I always thought you were deemed as being on their soil if you step foot in the embassy....after that it should be just plane sailing........ Geoff Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 11:02 #15991 | |
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derbybest
274 posts |
Would it be possible to catch train from Manchester - Cardiff and then fly to Europe from there therefore getting another country in. Also if you pass through Venice there is the option of taking a Gondola Chris Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 11:03 #15992 | |
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northroad
872 posts |
Forgot to say that once in London by train to visit the embassy's on Friday, you then have a trip on a bus, take a taxi, then a trip up the Thames, use one of Boris's bicycles and then finish your trip by plane from Heathrow......simple really......and the money you save you can treat yourself to a pint or two to congratulate yourself on being there by Saturday evening. Geoff Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 11:12 #15993 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
northroad said:Does an embassy count as a country. I always thought you were deemed as being on their soil if you step foot in the embassy....after that it should be just plane sailing........I believe the Embassy thing is a common misconception. All land in the UK belongs to the Crown. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 11:52 #15994 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
UK-Norway-Sweden-Denmark-Germany-Austria-Slovenia-Croatia makes eight countries; quite easy to do side trips to make ten. Tram start-Manchester Train Manchester-Birmingham People mover Birmingham International to Birmingham Airport Plane Birmingham - Oslo Train Oslo-Malmo Ferry Malmo-Copenhagen (if it still runs) Train Copenhagen-Zagreb Whether the people mover, train, and tram all count as one, I don't know! Add bus, walking, cycling anywhere in that. Cable car maybe but I don't know where. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 11:58 #15995 | |
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Backup
89 posts |
Thanks Northroad; the embassy idea could be really useful. I've just had a look at the cycles, that's another firm lead. All in all, since they do seem to like challenging their staff; exploiting time & money saving loopholes might actually be the "proper" solution (demonstrating lateral thinking, and so forth). Thanks Derbybest; the gondola might fit nicely into the existing return idea. Apparently, via Wales was considered - but due to heading in the 'wrong direction' even briefly, and possible check-in delays; scored an unfavourable cost/benefit analysis in the early planning stages. Thanks Peter Bennet; I appreciate the caution. Hopefully, it only really matters what the bosses believe, not what the hard facts are :cool: Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 11:59 #15996 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
What does "pass through" mean? Does, it mean on land only or does it include passing through terratorial water and airspace? Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 12:00 #15997 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
Peter Bennet said:northroad said:Apparently the land belongs to the host country generally, but the laws inside the compound can be that of the embassy's country rather than the host country. For example, a refugee could seek immunity within an embassy and there wouldn't be much a host country could do to extract that refugee without diplomatic relations being tested somewhat. Very generally speaking as I'm sure they all vary.Does an embassy count as a country. I always thought you were deemed as being on their soil if you step foot in the embassy....after that it should be just plane sailing........I believe the Embassy thing is a common misconception. All land in the UK belongs to the Crown. But in practical terms, I don't think you can simply walk into an embassy without a good reason for doing so - "just collecting countries" not being a good reason! I know the Filipino and American embassies in London require an appointment booked and confirmation of such produced before entrance is granted (emergencies for citizens of those countries possibly exempted). SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 12:10 #15998 | |
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Backup
89 posts |
Good question PB; unknown answer. I infer that it means feet on the ground, but will advise further inquiry. As said earlier, loopholes could be key. (In all these posts, I'm not trying to nit-pick or shoot down helpful suggestions; just to provoke further ideas and provide explanations into why their existing ideas were picked). Flight paths, while not impossible to research, would present a challenge in actually counting countries; and probably won't be relied upon to contribute to the count. There's also the (admittedly unknown) possibility of airspace closures due to Grimsvotn ash; they'd possibly get pulled up if they didn't account for that. Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 12:15 #15999 | |
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Backup
89 posts |
GeoffM; I guess they'll have to pick countries famed for easy-going manner / politeness / few natural enemies. Perhaps Canada, Japan, New Zealand...
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| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 12:37 #16000 | |
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northroad
872 posts |
Seems to me like we are doing a team building of our own here......he..he..... How about just taking a photo of the identification of the embassy plate without actually stepping foot inside and then you don't get into trouble.....much the same as taking the number without cabbing it....them were the days.... Geoff Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 13:01 #16001 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
Would a visit to the London Eye count as a 'flight' (as it used to be called), or another mode - ferris wheel? Could also work in a Thames boat trip to count as the ferry, and save time over a longer ferry trip, and use a Boris bike. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 13:13 #16002 | |
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northroad
872 posts |
Finally from me......you do not specify how long the return trip can take...............so and assuming you or he can drive.....how about a nice road trip driving through the following.....England, France, Belgium, Holland, Luxemburg, Germany, Switzerland, Lichenstein, Austria, Slovenia,Croatia and all that after taking the train to London, having a ride on a London bus, taxi, trip along the river, riding a Boris bicycle.........I rest my case....... Geoff Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 13:37 #16003 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
I would have thought that the "transport" bit should arrive at somewhere other than where it departed from - maybe that Falkirk canal lift could substitute a ferris wheel on that basis?! If you had time, perhaps ski lift up one side of a mountain and then ski down the other side onto another means of transport? Jetski? Swim the channel?! Funicular? Parachute jump? Okay, getting a little carried away now.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 13:59 #16004 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
GeoffM said:I would have thought that the "transport" bit should arrive at somewhere other than where it departed fromAh you are with Lord Widgery in the Court of Appeal [1974 Blackpool Pleasure Beach] "In my view the essence of transport of passengers is the carriage of a passenger from A to B, and perhaps from B to C. I am fully conscious of the fact that there are such things as return tickets and round trips, and that a person setting out to go from A to B may nevertheless retrace his steps or continue his journey in such a way as to end up in the end at A again. But the essence, as I see it, of transport of passengers is that the passenger is taken from A to B because he wants to be at B or because there is some purpose in being at B, and if he then goes on from B to C his carriage may still be transport of a passenger because he wants to be at C and so on. I cannot accept that a person who in effect remains on one spot all the time is on any view to be considered under the head of being transported as a passenger, and I think as a matter of reality and common sense the movement of patrons on the Big Dipper, or any of its associated installations, is in effect movement on one spot. None of those who patronise these entertainments desire that the track should be constructed so that they shall visit a particular point. The actual construction of the track is a matter of indifference to them as long as it contains the necessary gradients and corners. In no kind of sense is the patron, in my view, being taken from one place to another, and I think that using the words of the schedule in their ordinary meaning it must necessarily exclude movement which in effect is confined to a single point and does not involve the deliberate movement or transfer of a passenger from one point to another." Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 14:01 #16005 | |
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Backup
89 posts |
Good call on the photos, northroad. An unknown/unspecified time limit for the return; but unless they drive both ways, they'd need approval for the time and cost necessary for a trans-continental car hire & journey. That would be all of the awesomes, though  .(I'm not actually going, by the way. My contributions are limited to research; and later, providing a 'UK helpdesk' in case they need to know the Ukranian for "where the flip are we?" :: , when something departs somewhere, and so on.) Likewise, AndyG; good call - a Thames trip could get a mode out the way; quickly, cheaply, luggage-compatible, and without currency or language barriers in the way. I've just realised snags with the bikes: 1/ Helmets, lack of: HQ are unlikely to approve of a number of key staff simultaneously taking a needless risk. 2/ Luggage, carrying of: Near-impossible; unless they go in a circuit and use storage, thus rendering that leg of the trip hard to justify. Now, maybe if they got me tickets as guide/porter to transfer their bags whilst they cycle / open doors for them... 
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| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 23/05/2011 at 16:12 #16006 | |
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lawndart
24 posts |
In the spirit of fun, and if cost is truly of no object, then completing part of the journey by a quick trip across the atlantic and a ride in the Virgin Galactic spacecraft would be a must. Trouble is, it's not ready yet. Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 24/05/2011 at 09:06 #16020 | |
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AnyFile
101 posts |
I really like the gondola idea ... Does a rack railway count as separate from a railway? You should find several of them in Switzerland. If I have understood correctly the Matterhorn Gotthard Bahn should have some segments that are rack railways (you need not to do the all journey). Another option could be the Berner Oberland Bahn (and as they are in Switzerland there are surely a network of bus or other rail to connect with at departure and arrival point) If a funicular is allowed, then two funicular than came to my mind are the one from Como to Brunate and the one in Bergamo (connecting the lower part of the city to the upper part). In both case there should be a bus too, so you should be able to came back without taking two times the same service. Passing from many countries should not be a very big problem. For instance Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg count as 3 countries and are very close each other (and there should be a ferry to/from England from both Belgium and Netherlands). The same applies for the countries of the former Yugoslavia, but there may be less easy to find many transport from country to country. A very good site where to look for railways timetable is the one of the German railway. It cater of bus too and gives you a lot of details (especially in German and surrounding countries, with fewer details in other countries). And it is available in many language .... DB bahn (in English) After some search for some maps, I have found these pages InterRail Rail Map of Europe Buker maps of railway Railfan Log in to reply |
| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 24/05/2011 at 09:48 #16022 | |
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Backup
89 posts |
Fun idea, lawndart; but the Finance director might have a few choice words about that. Thanks AnyFile; I've just checked the DB site, and it is incredible - more help than every site I've previosuly checked, rolled together. "BeNeLux" is certain to form part of their plans; plus, if they get every European country in, they get a five-army bonus (no, wait - that's the boardgame Risk ).
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| Information/Ideas/Suggestions/Websites needed for European travel 24/05/2011 at 09:57 #16023 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
How about:walk to tram, tram to Manchester Pic, train to Euston, bus to Embankment, river bus (ie ferry) along Thames, taxi to St P Int., HST to... Gets a lot of modes done early, leaves the trains to clock up the countries. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |