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| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 01:18 #51884 | |
Roadrunner
111 posts |
Apologies to all players and spectators of the KX game. Can someone explain what happened with the 1985 timetable? There should be no trains entering with entry times prior to 0600. The trains from 0000 to 0600 should have been removed from the 0600 version. At least that was the case with the old KX sim and timetable. Has something changed? Log in to reply |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 01:19 #51885 | |
pedroathome
916 posts |
Trains do on that TT - Nothing to stop you going around and removing them, also, it should be used in the old era, certain things have changed there.
Last edited: 23/11/2013 at 01:20 by pedroathome Log in to reply |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 01:25 #51886 | |
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Roadrunner
111 posts |
That is not correct, Pedro. The 0600 timetable should be the same as the 0000 timetable, but with all trains from 0000 to 0600 removed. There has been a change, because the 0600 timetable on the old King;s Cross, started at 0600 and did not have any trains entering before 0600.
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| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 01:25 #51887 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
Obviously the new sim can't handle situations where train entry time is unknown, but exit (or next timed point etc.) is in the past. In the old exe, it works
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| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 01:27 #51888 | |
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pedroathome
916 posts |
" said:That is not correct, Pedro. The 0600 timetable should be the same as the 0000 timetable, but with all trains from 0000 to 0600 removed. There has been a change, because the 0600 timetable on the old King;s Cross, started at 0600 and did not have any trains entering before 0600.Agreed that they shouldn't enter, but it appears that they are not removed, hence my comment Log in to reply |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 01:29 #51889 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
" said:That is not correct, Pedro. The 0600 timetable should be the same as the 0000 timetable, but with all trains from 0000 to 0600 removed.But it isn't so. The timetable contains all the trains, and the sim just marks them as entered. The problem is that it only marked as such trains with known entry time, like 1A411. Its joining 0A411 has entry time 0 (meaning "any time"  and the sim somehow made it enter. I wonder what the rule on the old sim was.
Last edited: 23/11/2013 at 01:32 by Finger Log in to reply |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 01:30 #51890 | |
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Roadrunner
111 posts |
Understood, Pedro. There is absolutley no point in having an 0000 timetable, just advanced to 0600. It is the same as the 0000. Making it start at 0600 won't work.
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| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 01:34 #51891 | |
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Roadrunner
111 posts |
Actually, there was another problem. The loader KX would not use a saved file from the old KX. The loader KX requires a Zip archive version of the .ssg file, according to the message on screen. Perhaps the SimSig team could answer this one.
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| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 02:25 #51892 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
" said:Actually, there was another problem. The loader KX would not use a saved file from the old KX. The loader KX requires a Zip archive version of the .ssg file, according to the message on screen. Perhaps the SimSig team could answer this one.The core code in Kings Cross has been updated. Consequently old .ssg files are not compatible. The noted changes are in Options (F3) and access to the Incident Control Panel (F11). The new .ssg files are a "Zip" type archive file. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 04:19 #51894 | |
GeoffM
6377 posts |
First, the easy one. SSG files are now zipped XML files which makes it significantly easier to be more compatible between different versions of a sim. Previously the uncompressed binary saves could not cope if the number of objects (signals/points/tracks etc) changed in different versions of the exe. As for the timetable issue, I'm a little confused as to what actually happened. If you select a timetable on start-up and alter the start time, and the sim launches, then all trains with an earlier entry time (minus a few minutes) will be marked as entered. Trains that do not have an entry point do not get marked as entered (I think). Trains never actually get deleted, though you can hide them from view. Trains that rely on rules are a little more complicated, and to a certain extent depends on the timetable and/or the simulation. Some people have special random seed trains that determine which day of the week it is - ie 7 trains, only one of which runs. Later trains that only run on particular days of the week then have a rule which requires the special seed train to have already entered. If none of those seed trains entered, because you started the timetable after they should have entered, then it could make for an interesting Christmas Day timetable (ie no trains). Clever use of rules but does force you to start the sim at the recommended time. In addition, "captive trains" that enter from a depot, then shuttle backwards and forwards all day without ever leaving the sim will be missing if started after the initial train's entry time. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: duncan89 |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 10:24 #51898 | |
Steamer
3986 posts |
I don't understand the problem here- I've just started the 0600 timetable, and at 06:01 I get loads of seed trains entering, as would be expected. I've also just checked the old version, and the timetable is exactly the same- lots of (seed) entries at 0600, but most of the earlier trains have been left in. They don't seem to be doing any harm there, the TT writer just seems to have left them in. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 23/11/2013 at 11:41 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 11:44 #51905 | |
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sloppyjag
480 posts 
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However, on the the old version seed services for services prior to 06:00 (e.g. 2R981 at Hornsey K106 or 5V451 at Ferme Park (North)) don't appear. In the Loader version they do appear. Some data which the exe. version is picking up is being missed by the loader version.
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| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 12:46 #51909 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
" said:I don't understand the problem here- I've just started the 0600 timetable, and at 06:01 I get loads of seed trains entering, as would be expected.The problem is that trains that don't have a specified entry time, but then join with something from the past, that didn't enter, don't enter in the old sim, but do in the new one. This doesn't apply to trains entering with a prescribed time, but joining something which was culled by the late start. The actual difference between old and new can be seen in the attached screenshot. A minimal testcase is attached as a timetable. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 14:48 #51912 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2084 posts |
Sounds a little like the rules might need a tweak.
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| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 23/11/2013 at 15:14 #51913 | |
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sloppyjag
480 posts
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None of the the affected trains have rules attached. Somehow the exe version "knows" that a train entering at 00:00 but has timing points before the selected starting time should not enter. The loader version allows all trains with 00:00 entry times to enter. So, as far as I can figure, the exe is reading some data in the TT that the loader is ignoring.
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| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 24/11/2013 at 20:56 #51961 | |
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Roadrunner
111 posts |
Thanks for the replies above. What should happen to trains with a --:-- entry time? I ran the 0600 timetable for a few minutes. It is 0603. I have 6H80 entering at Hitchin Up Yard. It runs to Royston with arrival time of 0032. This is the sort of train that I wouldn't expect to appear on an 0600 timetable. There is 5R011 from Letchworth CS, which becomes 2R011, departs Letchworth at 0002 and a half. Again, neither of these trains are required on an 0600 timetable. I don't recall this happening with the old KX and the 0600 timetable. It is possible I may be wrong, but there also might be an unintentional change as a result of the new loader. Obviously, we will have to leave that to the SimSig team. Log in to reply |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 24/11/2013 at 21:04 #51962 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
The only way that I can get these various 'pre-06:00' trains in this particular timetable to enter is by running this timetable in Modern mode......
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 24/11/2013 at 21:22 #51965 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
" said:The only way that I can get these various 'pre-06:00' trains in this particular timetable to enter is by running this timetable in Modern mode......Really? Check once more. Here, it behaves the same with the old layout (0A411 enters). That applies to the testcase I posted as well. Log in to reply |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 24/11/2013 at 21:22 #51966 | |
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Roadrunner
111 posts |
Thanks for that test, UKTM. Just to confirm, I am using the old layout of the loader version of KX, with the 0600 timetable that came with the new edition. The trains do enter as described above.
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| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 24/11/2013 at 21:26 #51967 | |
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Roadrunner
111 posts |
For the doubters, here is a screenshot.
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| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 24/11/2013 at 21:29 #51968 | |
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Steamer
3986 posts |
Does anyone know if Kurt is planning to refresh the timetable? Alternatively, someone else could do it (I don't mind having a go, but I'm not hugely familiar with the TT).
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Questions from [KX 22Nov2013, 11:10 PM] session 24/11/2013 at 22:42 #51973 | |
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sloppyjag
480 posts
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The 85 TT is fairly easy to tweak (not checked other TTs) by changing the entry times of 00:00 entry trains to 00:00H, or simply deleting them. None of these trains impact any trains after 06:00. Took me about 5 minutes.
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