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| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 08:54 #64847 | |
Humorist
102 posts |
Westbury Summer 2007 v4.0 I have not seen this reported elsewhere. 6A602 is timed at Bradford Junction at 13:44, then Thingley Junction at 13:57. 6C481 strikes in at Chippenham at 13:53, and is then timed for Thingley Junction at 13:57 and Bradford Junction at 14:21. Logically, the signaller would hold 6C481 on the down main line just short of Thingley to allow 6A602 to clear the Melksham single and cross to the up main. 6C481 just keeps coming, past the point on the down main line where it ought to wait to allow 6A602 to clear and cross to the up main line. 6A602 just disappears head-on into 6C481, see screenshots. Shot 1 - 13:47 - 6C481 could still stop at Chippenham  Shot 2 - 13:53 - 6C481 passes last signal on down main  Shot 3 - 6C481 fouling 6A602 at Thingley Junction  Shot 4 - 6A602 just disappears under 6C481 
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| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 10:35 #64848 | |
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welshdragon
315 posts |
Do you have any saves? This can help us immensely with debugging!
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| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 12:09 #64850 | |
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Humorist
102 posts |
Dragon - thanks, see my saves from 13:30, 13:45 and 14:00 which should cover the period in question.
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| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 15:27 #64853 | |
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welshdragon
315 posts |
Ok, Given 6C481 doesn't appear in your 13:30 snapshot (it's set to only appear 60% of the time), I've just tried with the 13:45 snapshot, and cancelled the route you'd set from 119 signal, This won't incur a penalty as the route is approach conrolled (YY > Y > R > G). I'd recommend you give any train that enters from Chippenham the priority, as the sim assumes there's nothing coming the other way. It's not really a conflict, it's simply knowing the correct regulation on the rare occurrence it happens. Log in to reply |
| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 15:48 #64854 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
" said:Ok, Given 6C481 doesn't appear in your 13:30 snapshot (it's set to only appear 60% of the time), I've just tried with the 13:45 snapshot, and cancelled the route you'd set from 119 signal, This won't incur a penalty as the route is approach conrolled (YY > Y > R > G). I'd recommend you give any train that enters from Chippenham the priority, as the sim assumes there's nothing coming the other way.Surely the slot should prevent that, or something? Log in to reply |
| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 16:05 #64855 | |
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LucasLCC
94 posts |
" said:" said:Or failing that, shouldn't the sim replicate what the fringe signaler would do? I.e hold it at Chippenham?Ok, Given 6C481 doesn't appear in your 13:30 snapshot (it's set to only appear 60% of the time), I've just tried with the 13:45 snapshot, and cancelled the route you'd set from 119 signal, This won't incur a penalty as the route is approach conrolled (YY > Y > R > G). I'd recommend you give any train that enters from Chippenham the priority, as the sim assumes there's nothing coming the other way.Surely the slot should prevent that, or something? Lucas Log in to reply |
| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 16:10 #64856 | |
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welshdragon
315 posts |
It's not that easy, as you'd have to simulate 2 different situations, one where you are chained to Bristol, and one where you are not, I can't speak for why the sim doesn't hold trains at Chippenham, but I'm sure one of the developers can look into things.
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| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 16:16 #64857 | |
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Humorist
102 posts |
Dragon - thanks. I must say that what Lucas wrote was more what I thought would (or should) happen, that the train at Chippenham should hold when the Melksham single is already committed and occupied. Anyway, no-one died, and somehow the Melksham train flew low (6A602) and went under the train from Chippenham (6C481). The Melksham single, straight off the GW main line, looks like another piece of excessive route rationalisation, just like the Kemble single line. Over and out! Log in to reply |
| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 16:26 #64858 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
Fixed Peter Not sure about re-release dates at the moment I have a queue. I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Last edited: 04/10/2014 at 16:28 by Peter Bennet Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Lyn-Greenwood |
| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 16:28 #64859 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
" said:" said:" said:Or failing that, shouldn't the sim replicate what the fringe signaler would do? I.e hold it at Chippenham?Ok, Given 6C481 doesn't appear in your 13:30 snapshot (it's set to only appear 60% of the time), I've just tried with the 13:45 snapshot, and cancelled the route you'd set from 119 signal, This won't incur a penalty as the route is approach conrolled (YY > Y > R > G). I'd recommend you give any train that enters from Chippenham the priority, as the sim assumes there's nothing coming the other way.Surely the slot should prevent that, or something? I'd agree with that - regardless of the booked order, the signalman at the Swindon end would be rather foolish to let a train approach the junction signal at Thingley without getting the slot first. I wouldn't have thought that it'd be too difficult to simulate that, subject to the usual timescales of course. How is Bristol relevant? Although there is clearly a schedule conflict, giving priority to 6C48 over the single line wouldn't seem to be the best regulating decision if everything's right time - apart from anything else, 6A60 was well on its way over the single line before 6C48 struck in and the slot was requested, wasn't it? Log in to reply |
| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 16:31 #64860 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
" said:FixedOoh, a queue. I'm excited. Can't wait to see what you have next in line 
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| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 16:32 #64861 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:" said:Of re-releasesFixedOoh, a queue. I'm excited. Can't wait to see what you have next in line ;) I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 04/10/2014 at 17:16 #64862 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
" said:" said:" said:Of re-releasesFixedOoh, a queue. I'm excited. Can't wait to see what you have next in line ;) Ah, that makes more sense. Still, rereleases are good! Log in to reply |
| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 05/10/2014 at 00:08 #64870 | |
pedroathome
916 posts |
" said:It's not that easy, as you'd have to simulate 2 different situations, one where you are chained to Bristol, and one where you are not, I can't speak for why the sim doesn't hold trains at Chippenham, but I'm sure one of the developers can look into things.How does Bristol come into this? The Melksham branch fringes to Swindon PSB Log in to reply |
| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 05/10/2014 at 00:08 #64871 | |
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pedroathome
916 posts |
" said:It's not that easy, as you'd have to simulate 2 different situations, one where you are chained to Bristol, and one where you are not, I can't speak for why the sim doesn't hold trains at Chippenham, but I'm sure one of the developers can look into things.How does Bristol come into this? The Melksham branch fringes to Swindon PSB Log in to reply |
| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 05/10/2014 at 12:50 #64879 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2084 posts 
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The fringe as simulated is nothing like it is in reality, which probably doesn't help. What we seem to have is a mix between what the signalman sees in TC indications, and the TD map. The way it is drawn on the sim, the Westbury signalman should see all the trains between Swindon and Bristol TDs stepping through the Thingley area. I know from looking at this before (although I can't find a ticket so looks like I never finished researching it), that the panel at Westbury only shows one line going off towards Thingley Jn with lots of combined track circuits, which will only indicate on Westbury depending on the conditions of the line at Thingley. Peter, when I get an hour I will write up a ticket of how it works in reality. The actual operation doesn't seem to be that far out, but the indications are not really very close to reality. Log in to reply |
| THINGLEY JUNCTION - 6A602 CONFLICT WITH 6C481 05/10/2014 at 18:11 #64881 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
The presentation is much as it was when the original authors made the Sim - I'm just tinkering with it. Someone rewrote some of the fringe interface recently and I'm not totally sure I follow how it works so I'm not minded to fiddle too much as I'll probably break it and it seems to work. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |