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| Signal failure or TCF on 4 track mainline 06/10/2024 at 20:32 #158770 | |
Underwood
748 posts |
Hello, I'm sure this has been asked on here, the search feature came up with just about every TCF/Signal Fail topic on the actual sims, too many results, I thought I asked before but I can't see all my post history, but either case if a signal failure or a TCF occurred on and Up Fast line, would everything logically be re-routed onto the Up Slow, but would that depend if a stopper was in the way? Say a TCF happened at Elstree & Borehamwood Up Fast, would an East Midlands St Pancras express be routed off at Radlett Jn and trundle down the Up Slow to Cricklewood to crossover back onto the Up Fast, but say a stopper had already got to Elstree or Mill Hill Broadway and now that East Midlands is stuck behind that, would it therefore be quicker to 'talk it through' the TCF? Or is it a case of hold the stopper and delay that until the East Midlands set has crossed over and got ahead, but being a Thameslink service just been held, it's pathing south of London is now out the window Any help appreciated! Log in to reply |
| Signal failure or TCF on 4 track mainline 06/10/2024 at 20:58 #158771 | |
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TUT
545 posts |
That's for you to decide based on your workload and performance. There is no rule that says if you can route trains around the problem you must. There is nothing to say you can only "talk by" signals if you have no other option. You are playing the part of a trained, skilled signaller working with trained, skilled drivers. You have the option to "talk by". Of course in reality it's likely you're going to need to grant line blockages so the S&T can go out and investigate and hopefully fix it (sometimes it's better to live with the problem until the end of the passenger service because it would be too disruptive to get the fix done). In that case obviously you will have to work around it, although you might very well decide to give only a 10 minute block because you're going to want to talk the next one by the signal after that. Log in to reply |
| Signal failure or TCF on 4 track mainline 07/10/2024 at 09:10 #158774 | |
flabberdacks
649 posts |
It's entirely your choice. As you become more experienced with a sim, you start to learn how long it takes to get from 'A' to 'B' regardless of what the timetable says - and that's the key, the timetable is just a guide and should not be regarded as a bible. If an advantage is to be gained by putting a train on a different platform or different line, go ahead, especially on a sim like West Hampstead where maintaining flow is everything. You're in charge. Once the fault is fixed or the delay is cleared, you can return to following the timetable.
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| Signal failure or TCF on 4 track mainline 07/10/2024 at 10:51 #158777 | |
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kbarber
1764 posts |
flabberdacks in post 158774 said:It's entirely your choice. As you become more experienced with a sim, you start to learn how long it takes to get from 'A' to 'B' regardless of what the timetable says - and that's the key, the timetable is just a guide and should not be regarded as a bible. If an advantage is to be gained by putting a train on a different platform or different line, go ahead, especially on a sim like West Hampstead where maintaining flow is everything. You're in charge. Once the fault is fixed or the delay is cleared, you can return to following the timetable.(My italics) Well, you can when the service has settled itself down. Which could take an hour or three. There's always a preference, all things being equal, to use the solution that retains the security of 'engineered solutions'. So my instinct (though I never - officially at least - worked a 4-track line) would be to use the slow roads preferentially. Talking a train by, especially if there's a TCF involved, means you lose full information about the train and what it's up to. But if delays start to build I'd probably send the occasional train through fast road and talk them by as, broadly speaking, that would most likely end up taking no longer than the delays building on the slow. What I'd be looking for was a balance that minimised overall delay and simultaneously minimised the chances of having to talk a second train by the failure before I had seen very clearly that the preceding one was clear. But that would be my preference. Some signalmen would shy away from ever talking by if they had alternatives available (trains trapped between the nearest Xovers and the failure being an exception of course). Others just worked by 'booked route, booked order' regardless. I recall Alan Williams, in Modern Railways, writing that he came to be able to work out who the signalmen at Woking were on any given day by watching the different strategies they used for setting overlaps at busy times. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: flabberdacks |
| Signal failure or TCF on 4 track mainline 30/10/2024 at 13:57 #159026 | |
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Underwood
748 posts |
Thank you for the responses, I did also wonder how it works in terms if route knowledge but with over night engineering works on something like the Reading - Paddington section services often run on the slows when required, I assume if you do route knowledge on a section that is 4 tracks then you have to sign both the Fast/Main and Slow/Reliefs?
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| Signal failure or TCF on 4 track mainline 30/10/2024 at 17:35 #159028 | |
jc92
3700 posts |
Underwood in post 159026 said:Thank you for the responses, I did also wonder how it works in terms if route knowledge but with over night engineering works on something like the Reading - Paddington section services often run on the slows when required, I assume if you do route knowledge on a section that is 4 tracks then you have to sign both the Fast/Main and Slow/Reliefs?I couldn't speak for every TOC/FOC. But yes, If you sign the route you sign all parallel lines as its reasonable to expect to be regulated or work around issues. I'm not sure if Sharnbrook- Wellingborough is considered separate though as the slow lines deviate completely from the fast. Similar situation as with signing via Weedon and Northampton, although most will sign both. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Signal failure or TCF on 4 track mainline 30/10/2024 at 19:42 #159029 | |
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clive
2799 posts |
I believe that anyone who signs the ECML south of Stevenage is required to know the Hertford loop as well, so that trains can be diverted that way in times of trouble.
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| Signal failure or TCF on 4 track mainline 30/10/2024 at 19:50 #159030 | |
Hap
1048 posts 
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Up here, you need to have signed every bit of track you could go over as a diversionary, and even then it's depot specific as to who does what. For example, Perth drivers only sign in one direction between Larbert and Edinburgh. Central and Motherwell drivers sign the connections between the WCML - Newton (Lanark) - WCML, but Edinburgh don't. All these lines are in plain view of the others.
How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue Last edited: 30/10/2024 at 19:51 by Hap Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Signal failure or TCF on 4 track mainline 03/11/2024 at 09:27 #159060 | |
Guts
604 posts |
You'd think this to be true, but..... I think this is only TOC's. I know a few companies including my own which certain drivers don't sign Hertford Loop Log in to reply |
| Signal failure or TCF on 4 track mainline 05/11/2024 at 18:40 #159075 | |
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markt
60 posts |
Brighton and Horsham drivers won't sign the Hertford Loop, but do sign from Cambridge and Peterborough respectively on the 9Sxx and 9Jxx service groups.
20 years of Simsigging Log in to reply |