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| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 27/10/2017 at 01:18 #102534 | |
VInce
579 posts |
Hi all, At last the Peterborough 1977 6-day timetable has been uploaded to the files area and is currently waiting for moderator approval. Extensive explanatory notes are provided under the general tab on the timetable itself.They are reproduced here as they are easier to read on the forum. _____________________________________________________________________________________ I'm indebted to Peter Bennet for his work in creating the original Fridays Only timetable and to Postal for pointing me in the direction of a wonderful on-line resource where the booked formations of all the loco-hauled passenger trains in this timetable could be found. This timetable represents a considerable expansion of Peter's work - it now includes all trains that run on Mondays to Saturdays including those which ran during the sugar-beet harvest season, when a considerable number of trains ran from East Anglia to various destinations in the West Country and the Midlands. Certain holiday trains run in the Saturday timetable. It has been extensively tested over many weeks in a variety of different scenarios to shake out as many errors as possible. However, there are so many variables in the timetable it is impossible to find every one and if you do find one, or indeed need any questions answering please respond in this thread. The Choices & Decisions system will determine the following: 1) The day of the week 2) Traction for certain ECML and Birmingham - Norwich trains (DMU or loco hauled) 3) The entrance point out of Peterborough Up Yard i.e. Shunt Line (SL) or Yard Departure Line THINGS TO BE AWARE OF.... 1) This is 1977 when the railway was very, very different place from what it is today. I know, I was there! Freight and Passenger trains all had guards who, in those far-off days had considerable operating responsibility. Propelling movements of long trains over considerable distances was commonplace, controlled by a guard's handsignals from the brake vehicle of ECS/ENPCCS trains and a brakevan on non-fully fitted freight trains. 2) Freight trains ran very early as well as very late. In those days signallers had a simple rule - if it was ready to go and had a margin to the next refuge point then off it went and there was no hanging around for WTT time or asking other signalboxes if they could accept a train early. So if you wish to use this timetable in the spirit of those days you should adopt this policy. 3) ECML trains in the 1977 WTT had a considerable engineering and pathing allowance due to extensive upgrade work that was taking place at various locations. This will cause trains to run early, often significantly so and cause just as many problems as trains running late. If the early running really concerns you may I suggest the following: Using the F11 Incident Control Panel place whole train 30mph speed restrictions for passenger & freight trains in the following track circuits - T7011A & T7012 DFL Stilton Fen, T9222 & T9121 on the UFL at Little Bytham. This will successfully take out a lot of this "recovery time". 3) If my memory is correct, 1977 was the first year in which loco-hauled trains replaced DMUs between Birmingham and Norwich. However DMU substitutions occurred on a daily basis as a result of failures and stock shortages. The UID suffix on the F2 list will tell you which trains are loco-hauled and which are DMU e.g. ZEH731DMU or ZQS557LH. 4) If using ARS, 5B49SO 0905 EDMU Hitchin - Biggleswade via Sandy (reverse) on arrival at Biggleswade, due to a sim limitation, the Train Description does not update from 5B49 to 2H94. This will have to be done manually otherwise ARS will not pick up the train. 5) All trip workings (trains with T in the train description), engineering trains and on-track machines are not timed, save for an entry time. You will have to find paths for these yourself to get resources to where they required promptly. If you are using ARS then you will need to make all of these non-ARS at the entry point or you find trains many miles away will be waiting for them. 6) Sandy Down Sidings : 9T16 TTho Trip working will need the Hand Points reverse for entry, normal for propelling out onto the DSL : 9T17 MWFo Trip Working does not use the hand points and they should remain normal for entrance and exit. 7) 6E34 1957 Castle Bromwich - Ketton Wards Cement will sneak up on you if you are not vigilant and will stand at Ketton No. 3 signal (not shown on the sim) waiting for you to operate the GF. Keep your eye on the trains entering the system and also the F2 Trains List. While it is standing there it blocks the Up Stamford. After it has been admitted and detaches its train (in reality, for the works shunt engine to collect later) the train engine 0M44 will ask your permission to enter - when you have given this you will need to operate the GF to allow it to run towards Peterborough. 8) Several On-Track Machine Movements occur on Saturday evening and early Monday morning, They all have the reporting number 7Z06 and for the purposes of the sim can be considered as guaranteed to operate track circuits which however, would not have been typical at this time. Should you know the rules and regulations concerning the movement of OTM not guaranteed to operate track circuits there is nothing to stop you recoding them to 7Z09, the generic reporting number of such trains and moving them in accordance with those rules. 9) In disrupted conditions you may occasionally get a stand off between the Loco Sidings Down Side entry point and and the Shunt Line from the Yard. To resolve this you will need to shunt the loco from the yard to the shunt spur to clear, then manually reverse it. The movement from the Shunt Spur to the Shunt Line will require you to be quick and reverse the train manually again before it disappears back into the yard! You can also route trains from the Yard to the Loco sidings (Up End) via Platform 2, if you have a path. This will involve a manual reversal in P2. 10) Should you refuse to accept a train from Nene Sidings - they will not take one off you until you do accept it. 11) Peterborough CS (as opposed to Nene CS), Peterborough Parcels Terminal and Peterborough Yard all share a common entrance/exit called Peterborough Yard on the simulation. When trains arrived they were sorted internally by a manual signal box (Eastfield Jcn at the north end and Spital Jcn at the south end) into the correct group of sidings within the yard. All trains are booked to arrive in the Up Yard via the Yard Arrival Line although you can if you wish route them via the Shunt Line to avoid a conflict - it makes no difference in the sim. 12) Peterborough CS acted as a holding point for ECS trains between Platforms 2 & 3 and Nene CS. Peterborough CS also stabled the stock for the Midland and GE Postal trains. Box local instructions often state that for certain movements a route must be set throughout and not just as far as an intermediate GPS. This particularly applies to propelling movements out of the Up Yard to the station and vice versa. It is always good practice to set the last part of the route first. 13) Speed of trains : In the 1977 WTTs from which this timetable was extracted, all Class 6 trains were timed at 45mph. That does not mean to say they ran at 45mph, as at this time the air-braked network was expanding and many AB Class 6 trains ran at 60mph. The train description/category will state when a Class 6 train was running at 45mph. For those who may not have been around during this time in history, Class 7 trains ran at a maximum speed of 45mph, Class 8 at 35mph and Class 9 at 25mph (or 15mph if a Class 08 engine was used). Flyash trains to and from the Flyash circle all ran at a maximum speed of 55mph, as shown in the BR Supplementary Operating Instructions for 1977 - see here if you are interested. http://files.limitofshunt.org.uk/supplementary-operating-instructions/br-er/southern-area-1977-04-02.pdf Additionally certain trains in the WTT classified as Class 8, often ran as Class 6 or 7 according to the type of wagons being conveyed on the day. For example the Croft Quarry - Whitemoor - Leyton Depot services were shown and timed as Class 8 in the WTT but regularly ran as Class 6 or 7. The timetable will select the class of the train on the day. As per the WTT, all sleeper trains in this timetable run at 80mph although the stock was passed for a higher speed. In reality, sleeper trains ran at this speed unless delayed more than 15min which case they ran at 90mph. Similarly postal trains (i.e. those conveying Post Office staff in a sorting vehicle (POS or NSV)) also ran at 80mph. This was for the comfort of the Post Office staff as it was known that the ride on the Mk 1 sorting vehicles got a bit lively at over 80mph! 14) Speedlink : The BRB introduced a pilot scheme of air-braked freight wagon-load services a few years before 1977 and it was in this year it was finally adopted and given the name "Speedlink". There are a small number of trains designated either "Speedlink Trunk Service" or "Speedlink Feeder Service" in this timetable. 15) Light engines to work trains are timed - light engines running to the depot after working trains are not timed. They will appear red in ARS and will need to be made non-ARS. 16) Possessions : The possession trains and on-track machines that run in the Saturday timetable are typical of the time. In the weekend engineering circulars, they were only given the barest of timetables too with just a departure time and sometimes an arrival time so that is the case in this timetable too. Timetabled trains are diverted via the slow lines but not retimed (as was the custom of the day) so they will run late but their engineering time allowance should take care of that before leaving the sim. The sim ends at 0230 (2630) Sunday and when the last timetabled train has run you can shut down the sim leaving the possession trains berthed where they stand. On the Saturday timetable lines some lines are blocked for engineering possessions at 2130 or 2200. Possession trains and on-track machines run. The possession trains are provided but you need to take the possessions yourself at 2200. Remember, signals are not operated in possessions thus ARS must be switched off, and the PICOP (you!) must authorise all movements. You must also move all points manually. You can use the Incident Control Panel (F11) to get trains to pass the next signals at danger and pause trains to position them appropriately. See the wiki for more details about possessions. Possession U&DFL St. Neots - Sandy from 2200. Possession Limits are P312 to K768 UFL and K765 to P315 DFL. Possession train 6K50 waits at P312 until the possession is taken and proceeds to site of work at Sandy station. The train requires to run UFL to Sandy South and then set back through the crossover and stand on the DFL whilst reballasting work takes place on the UFL. A couple of on-track machines are moved to Sandy Up and Down sidings earlier in the evening ready to start work after the stone-drop has been completed. Possession U&DFL Werrington Jcn - Little Bytham from 2200. Possession Limits are P503 to P579 DFL and P582 to P502 DFL. Work is tamping and picking up rails at Tallington. A tamper leaves Peterborough Engineers Sidings and stands at P503 until the possession is taken, then runs to site at Tallington, crosses to the UFL via the main/main crossover and sets back to work between Tallington North and South. The tamper is timetabled to Tallington and after that you will need to move it manually by abandoning the timetable and positioning it using the F11 screen and the "pause train" facility. After this has been accomplished, possession train 6K51 is admitted to the possession at P503 and runs to site working between Tallington South and North on the DFL unloading new rail and picking up scrap rails from the DFL cess. You will need to abandon timetable at Tallington and position this manually too Possession Up&Down Stamford Slow from 2130. Possession Limits P471 to fouling point 1267B points on the Down Stamford and Fouling point 1267A points to P470 on the up Stamford. No trains working in the possession - New England North Junction available to cross trains. Enjoy! Vince PS For those that are interested Little Barford PS is serviced using coal in minfits (MCV in TOPS parlance) from the north east coalfield. Midweek trains to Little Barford are conditional on the feeder service from Whitemoor (8B22) running which is itself a conditional service dependent on the coal services arriving at Whitemoor from Tyne or Tees Yard. On Mondays the Little Barford train (8B22/8B33) always runs, the feeder service for this being 8B18 a late Saturday evening service from Tees Yard. It ran via the ECML due to the joint line closing early on Saturdays and there were afternoon and evening paths for a Class 8 on the ECML. I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 27/10/2017 at 18:45 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply The following users said thank you: norman B, whitetigger |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 27/10/2017 at 12:51 #102539 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
Hi all, Is there a moderator around who could approve the upload please? Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Log in to reply |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 27/10/2017 at 18:05 #102543 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts 
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VInce in post 102539 said:Hi all,Looks like it was done. Direct link SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following users said thank you: norman B, VInce |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 29/10/2017 at 11:22 #102569 | |
StephenD
13 posts |
Vince, On the question of point 3 (the first year in which loco-hauled trains replaced DMUs between Birmingham and Norwich), I have recently been re-reading “Modelling the British Rail Era” by Ian Fleming, Steve Flint, Ken Gibbons and Jeff Taylor, and it agrees with you that 1977 was the year this happened. On Page 37 it has the following paragraph: Norwich – Peterborough – Leicester – Birmingham Made up from a sequence of local services when another cross-country line closed in 1966. A mix of general purpose and Cross Country DMUs gave way to Mk1 locomotive-hauled stock in 1977, consistently rostered for class 31s and later 31/4s. Stephen P.S. Sterling work, by the way! Last edited: 29/10/2017 at 11:26 by StephenD Reason: Add P.S. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 29/10/2017 at 11:39 #102570 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
StephenD in post 102569 said:Vince,Hi Stephen, Thank you - its nice to know my memory hasn't completely gone. I was in Nottingham Divisional Control in 1977. I worked on a variety of desks in there, DMU Control amongst them. The Birmingham - Norwich service was supposed to be worked exclusively by Etches Park based Class 120 DMUs but in practice of course, EP Class 114s worked it too, despite being entirely unsuitable for the work! When stock replaced the DMUs we lost 5 Class 114s to Newton Heath and the 120s were used on their previous work. Its an odd thing about getting old - I can still pretty much remember the EP DMU diagrams from 1977 but have a problem in remembering what I did last week. Thanks for the information. Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 29/10/2017 at 11:39 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 29/10/2017 at 12:12 #102571 | |
Meld
1111 posts |
Vince IIRC 114s were at Lincoln throughout the 70's maybe you mean the handful of BRC&W 104s that were allocated to Derby Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 29/10/2017 at 14:28 #102573 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
Correct. Yes, this Class system still throws me - we knew them as either Swindons (Class 120) or BRCW sets (Class 104) Incidentally, where some other controls used set numbers, for reasons I never knew we didn't - (maybe it was that we changed the formations too frequently and thus each end had a difference maintenance schedule.) They were always known by the last three numbers of each powered vehicle. Norwich used set numbers too. So we had Swindons like 692/708, 663/719, 650/736 and so on, BRCWs were like 444/496 or 447/498 etc. Tyseley would have T403, T336 etc and the Lincoln twins (Class 114) were known by the last two numbers of each powered vehicle like set 35 (50035/56005. later 53005 after TOPS arrived on the scene) and so on. As well as our own sets we used to have one Norwich set per night stable at Leicester for the 0658 Peterborough and one Tyseley set for the 0637 Birmingham. At Nottingham there was one Lincoln set per night stable for the first Lincoln service and a Tyseley set at Leicester for the 0500 Wellingborough. There was also a Tyseley set at Nottingham for the 0705 Nottingham - Birmingham which we often pinched to work the 0510 Grantham and back before it did its booked work as this saved us a set. On diagram the EP set off the return of the 0510 would stand at Nottingham for three hours so it gave us time to cover that with something else. The Matlock branch would be EP sets until 0834 arrival from Matlock (2x3 car) then it should be a Lincoln set off the 0707 Lincoln - Derby. That would stay on the branch all day with the 1700 Derby - Matlock peak hour service being 2x3 sets off Etches Park. The Lincoln set returned home on the 1949 Derby - Lincoln. Its amazing what you can remember when you try.....! I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 29/10/2017 at 14:46 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 29/10/2017 at 14:45 #102574 | |
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Meld
1111 posts |
VInce in post 102573 said:Correct.I remember well the old Blackboards with the stenciled EP5xx in the cab windows, Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 29/10/2017 at 14:49 #102575 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
Meld in post 102574 said:VInce in post 102573 said:Yes, there was often one set number at one end and a different one at the other, because we never used them!Correct.I remember well the old Blackboards with the stenciled EP5xx in the cab windows, Incidentally, my avatar is a picture of me in Derby PSB after Nottingham Control closed and the job became a joint Train Running Controller/DMU controller based in the PSB. The yellow cards you can see in the rack behind were the individual sets in each of the diagram slots in the rack. This would be after 1984 though and we using the prototype Class 150s and 151s alongside the First generation sets and before we had the 150/1 fleet from new. In 1986 we got a standalone computer based system (called RAMBO for some reason), which evolved into the system still used now by the various TOC Controls. We used IBM XT green screens and it was a DOS based system.. Now there's a throw back for you. I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 29/10/2017 at 15:00 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: BarryM |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 30/10/2017 at 09:20 #102580 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
VInce in post 102575 said:[quote=Meld;post=102574]I was told by one of the BR IT Group people that they used to take great delight in torturing nice acronyms out of the possible initials to name the various IT systems that were created. TOPS was probably the easiest (and may have started the fashion for all I know). There was IMACS for stores, meanwhile the Personnel had PEARLS and its recruitment bolt-on PERVACS (they did manage to get that one to read PERVERTS but it was overruled from on high). There was fun to be had in those days... Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 01/11/2017 at 17:28 #102615 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
Hi all, Just gone through this again and couple of very minor errors have been noted which you may wish to update yourself. The following sugar beet trains should have ++45mph++ in the train description pane of the time table. They all actually run at 45mph, it just needs to say so in he description pane. 6V49MO/ZHE057 0425 Cantley - Margam 6V49ThO/ZAE180 0425 Cantley - Westbury 6V49TuO/ZBH664 0425 Cantley - St. Blazey 6V49WO/ZDC507 0425 Cantley - Exeter 6V59MFO/ZDC584 1336 Ely to Exeter 6V59ThO/ZCH200 1125 Sproughton - Exeter 6V59WO/ZAA851 1336 Ely - Taunton 1E07SX/ZGH492CL55 is shown to run SL from Biggleswade. This is an error - it should be FL. I've no idea why I didn't spot this except that maybe the Class 55 option was not selected every time I ran a Friday test. There's also line missing from the notes which explains, with reference to 9T18MWFo at Huntingdon Sidings that In the schedules the sidings are shown as platforms, No 1 siding is the one immediately behind Platform 3. No.2 is the other. At some stage, maybe a month or so, I'll incorporate these plus any others which may be found in an update. Please let me know if the 50 or so of you that have downloaded this timetable find any further errors. Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 01/11/2017 at 20:07 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply The following users said thank you: norman B, Phil-jmw, Airvan00, WesternChampion, bossman |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 04/11/2017 at 04:23 #102653 | |
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Airvan00
129 posts |
Hi Vince, think there might be a platform error in 2B52-1SX , both ZEH477YD and ZEH477SL. As the pth and lin are FL. I think the Platform at Biggleswade should be 2 Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Peterborough Mon-Sat 1977 timetable uploaded. 04/11/2017 at 07:37 #102654 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
Airvan00 in post 102653 said:Hi Vince,Thank you. Yes it should be 2. As a result of what you found, I've checked all of the Biggleswade stoppers and found a couple more which have been amended for the next release. Regards, Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 04/11/2017 at 08:15 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Airvan00 |