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| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 20:42 #102621 | |
northroad
872 posts |
Just started the Tyneside Groundhog timetable which has a 00:00 start time and noticed that quite a lot of the Class 6 services have the passing time ticked when there is an arrival time and departure time against them. The end result for this is that the service does not stop and goes trundling on. Alright if you can handle the sim without any help but if like me I use ARS for some of the sim and handle one or two of the panels myself. 6S97, 6S92, 6S91, 6S74, 6S05, 6N99, 6N61, 6N49,6N33, 6N13, 6N10, 6N07, 6H93, 6H92 to name but a few in this timetable. I think if there was something whilst the user was in the timetable writing stages that flagged up that this error was contained and needed the writers attention would be a good idea or at least given food for thought. These do not flag up if you do a timetable analysis from the tools 1 section of the timetable data and perhaps they could be incorporated in that. Just a suggestion and this seems to be a common fault with timetables not just this one that I am highlighting. Geoff. Log in to reply |
| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 20:46 #102622 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
It’s not a fault it has been done deliberately.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: northroad |
| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 20:47 #102623 | |
Stephen Fulcher
2084 posts |
Geoff, It's intentional to enable freight to run early. If pass wasn't ticked the train would wait time even when it could be accommodated early. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: northroad |
| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 20:48 #102624 | |
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northroad
872 posts |
Thanks for that but can you tell me why or is it in the manual. I have just seen the response before I posted this but it leads me to a further question. Usually when a service stands at a signal for more than two minutes the driver phones in and at that point you have the opportunity to tell him to wait time or phone back in 2, 5 or 15 minutes or wait time. You can let the service run early when you get the phone call and advise the driver as such. Geoff Last edited: 01/11/2017 at 20:55 by northroad Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 20:58 #102625 | |
postal
5265 posts |
Stephen Fulcher in post 102623 said:Geoff,Thought SimSig only insisted that Cl 1/2/5 waited for time, with Cl 3/4/6/7/8 randomly selected to either wait for time or depart as soon as ready. Not sure about what SimSig does for Cl. 9s. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: northroad |
| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 21:06 #102626 | |
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MarkC
1105 posts |
I would of thought that using "Set down only" would of been the better option, as it allows the train to stop and if the driver is ready it can go and I belive you get the option in the phone menu, to call back at its departure time instead of the 2, 5 or 15 mins options.
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: northroad |
| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 21:08 #102627 | |
Steamer
3985 posts |
The idea is that the train will always depart early if you allow it to, and you can route the train 'main line' without having to edit the timetable so it won't stop anyway. It's really a style choice by the TT writer; some will put them in the format described above, others will put them as straight arrive/depart times and the user has to edit the TT if they don't want to loop the train or want it moving early (assuming the driver hasn't rung in). "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 01/11/2017 at 21:09 by Steamer Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: northroad |
| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 21:15 #102628 | |
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Jan
906 posts |
postal in post 102625 said:Not sure about what SimSig does for Cl. 9s.If the wiki (scroll down to Class of Service) is correct, a Class 9 with "Use freight linespeeds" ticked will be treated as a freight train. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Last edited: 01/11/2017 at 21:15 by Jan Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 21:31 #102629 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2084 posts |
postal in post 102625 said:Stephen Fulcher in post 102623 said:I believe that's true, but the pass option gives the user control.Geoff,Thought SimSig only insisted that Cl 1/2/5 waited for time, with Cl 3/4/6/7/8 randomly selected to either wait for time or depart as soon as ready. Not sure about what SimSig does for Cl. 9s. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: northroad |
| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 21:57 #102630 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
Stephen Fulcher in post 102629 said:postal in post 102625 said:So if I understand things correctly, without the pass ticked the train may or may not wait for time, with the pass ticked it will always run as soon as possible.Stephen Fulcher in post 102623 said:I believe that's true, but the pass option gives the user control.Geoff,Thought SimSig only insisted that Cl 1/2/5 waited for time, with Cl 3/4/6/7/8 randomly selected to either wait for time or depart as soon as ready. Not sure about what SimSig does for Cl. 9s. To put a bit of context to it, I've just run a quick check putting 10 x Cl.6 through Brownhill UPL on the Paisley sim with a booked 8 minute stop. Of the 10, 2 waited for time and 8 were ready to start almost immediately after stopping. Looking at those numbers I presume that even if the signaller edits the TT to take out the "pass", the train will still be ready to start shortly after arrival time on most occasions that it runs. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: northroad |
| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 21:59 #102631 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
mark265 in post 102626 said:I would of thought that using "Set down only" would of been the better option, as it allows the train to stop and if the driver is ready it can go and I belive you get the option in the phone menu, to call back at its departure time instead of the 2, 5 or 15 mins options."Set down only" only has a meaningful effect with Cl 1/2/5. Classes 3/4/6/7/8 may or may not depart early whether the "Set down only" box is checked or not. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: northroad |
| Timetable writing aid 01/11/2017 at 22:01 #102632 | |
GeoffM
6377 posts |
mark265 in post 102626 said:I would of thought that using "Set down only" would of been the better option, as it allows the train to stop and if the driver is ready it can go and I belive you get the option in the phone menu, to call back at its departure time instead of the 2, 5 or 15 mins options.Repeating Steamer slightly, these location times with an arrival and a passing departure time are specifically edited when the train is only stopping for regulation purposes. In other words, no crew change, token exchanges, or anything else that actually requires the train to stop. So, if the signaller wants to keep the train going then (s)he can, and the train won't stop. The arrival time is left to show that it is timed to stop. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following users said thank you: northroad, Steamer, VInce |
| Timetable writing aid 02/11/2017 at 08:05 #102635 | |
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northroad
872 posts |
Thanks for the answers guys and it would appear some prefer to do it one way and others another. Can I throw another question for this then. How does ARS react to this because as I said in my first post depending on the size of the sim I may control one panel myself and let ARS help with the others. Surely if ARS sees the pass box ticked then it is going to let it go early I would assume even if you on the next panel did not want it in Section just yet and it may be running very early already. I probably should check this out myself but just about to jump in the car to go up North..... past Watford Gap and into the twilight zone....... Geoff Log in to reply |
| Timetable writing aid 02/11/2017 at 08:29 #102636 | |
Andrew G
552 posts |
In my view the mode of operation in Motherwell is the best solution where a Freight Train is booked to call at a Passenger or Goods Loop for pathing purposes. If the user decides there us a margin to run the train to the next regulating point they can choose to signal it on the main line rather than into the loop. The train will continue at line speed and doesn't sit down on the main line. If the train is looped and the driver calls in then they can be told to wait for time or call back in the usual time windows. I'm not a fan of the Tyneside WTT solution as it can be easy to miss a train booked to stop for pathing purposes only for it to catch your eye as ARS routes it back onto the main line. It would be interesting to know how the timetable in the actual IECC is complied. I suspect it will be with a departure rather than a passing time as the data is imported. Last edited: 02/11/2017 at 08:43 by Andrew G Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Timetable writing aid 02/11/2017 at 10:59 #102637 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts 
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It’ll be just a simple arrival and departure time. The difference between SimSig and reality - and why the author has chosen to do the timetable in this way - is if given the mainline vice the loop a real freight driver won’t question or hesitate; they’ll just carry on driving. Similarly if the signalman wants the train to go early; they can call the driver up on the GSM-R and ask that question. In SimSig neither of those are really possible without the fudges demonstrated previously. Log in to reply |
| Timetable writing aid 02/11/2017 at 15:39 #102639 | |
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GeoffM
6377 posts |
northroad in post 102635 said:How does ARS react to this because as I said in my first post depending on the size of the sim I may control one panel myself and let ARS help with the others.It's more about how the location data is programmed. ARS (both SimSig and IECC) use the timings to calculate predicted train describer step times from signal to signal, so a long layover in a loop would be seen as a longer time to step out of the loop than to step into it. Where the location data comes in is how it handles early running trains: each location has a "wait for time" option, along with a "time X before setting route before departure". If the former is not set then ARS will set route whenever* but if it's set then it will wait X before departure time before considering route setting. *Whenever - if it can get the train over the line without delaying another train then it'll route it early. Again, it uses the interpolated step times to work out how long each train will take along the common stretch when comparing against another/rival train. A bit of mathematics on the priority and length of delay and you get an overall weighted delay for each train if the other went first. Best score goes first. I understand signallers are more reluctant than in years gone past to let early running trains continue to be early. if something happens to it which blocks an on-time train then I believe the signaller that let the early train go first cops the consequences. Happy to be corrected on this. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Timetable writing aid 02/11/2017 at 16:53 #102642 | |
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Andrew G
552 posts |
GeoffM in post 102639 said:That is my understanding and in a lot of areas now they don't contemplate running freight early without the approval of Freight Running Control or in some cases the Signalling Shift Manager. I have even seen examples of a train being held to time even though it is the next train booked on a particular line due to this issue. Log in to reply |
| Timetable writing aid 02/11/2017 at 18:24 #102643 | |
Splodge
720 posts |
Lucky for us the same rules don't apply to ECS! (This is the last move of a night shift so everyone likes to try and get it back early! Not always possible but always appreciated when the plan comes together!). 
Post has attachments. Log in to view them. There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway. Last edited: 02/11/2017 at 18:25 by Splodge Reason: None given Log in to reply |