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| Rugby Centre Northampton sig RY1052 19/01/2018 at 10:03 #105228 | |
Afterbrunel
94 posts |
In demo25 attached, 4O86 has passed RY1052 satisfactorily. To avoid any misundertsanding about ARS I have made 4L97 non-ARS for this purpose. In a moment the Up Main to Up and Down Slow points will reverse and RY1052 will prepare to clear. For the avoidance of misunderstanding, 1) this is without intervention from me, and 2) without any ARS involvement, and 3) RY 1052 properly reverted to normal after the passage of 4O86. If this situation is run with 4L97 ARS enabled, the setting of the route to the U&DSL will cause it to be made non-ARS. Is there a workaround for this? Yes, obviously; if you happen to be looking at this part of the diagram you can cancel RY1052 before it actually clears to a proceed aspect, and then reinstate the UPSLOW12 and UPRLF12 ARS status. But this does seem to be a coding error. Is anyone with an official capacity in Simsig able to comment please? Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Rugby Centre Northampton sig RY1052 19/01/2018 at 13:26 #105231 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
There are two options as to how head-codes are displayed on an ARS simulation. The standard options is that ARS trains are shown in blue type face, none-ARS trains are shown in a pink typeface. The other option is "delay view". Trains in ARS are shown with a blue, green, yellow or red background depending how late or early they are, and none-ARS trains are shown with a grey background. 1) At the point you have made 4L97 none-ARS what colour is it's headcode? 2) Is the game you are playing loaded from a saved game? 3) If 2) is yes, what version of the loader did you start the game under? "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: DriverCurran |
| Rugby Centre Northampton sig RY1052 19/01/2018 at 13:45 #105232 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
The issue is not with 4O86 OR 4L97. When you cancel RY1052 signal you get a message in the message window stating "Route cancelled for 2Y54 - made non-ARS". This is the train that is causing the signal to clear, however I am unable to understand why as the timetable does not show the train as being routed onto the SL at Northampton North Jn which means that it should therefore call the route from RY1052 -> RY1036. This leads me to believe that you set the route manually for 2Y54 from RY1052 to RY1038 signal. Whilst there is nothing wrong with doing this, something has happened somewhere to cause the train to think a) it's going via the SL at Northampton North Jn and b) the train is not where the ARS thinks it is. However, I have tried three times now to reproduce this issue to no avail and at no stage has it been reported before. I was one of the testers of this sim and certainly never saw this behaviour. So the next questions are a) Can you confirm if you routed the train manually from RY1052 signal. b) Did you at any stage edit 2Y54's timetable to show SL at Northampton North Jn. c) Did you at any stage observe 2Y54 drop out of ARS and then you manually put it back in ARS, d) Did you at any stage alter how 2Y54 runs in any way? With my developers hat on (The same as Headshot) if Ii was the developer of this sim I would say that the user has done something unusual to cause the issue and that the data in the sim is correct, however, not being a) the developer of this sim and b) having no access to the data for the sim, I can not say that with any certainty. Noisynoel Log in to reply The following user said thank you: DriverCurran |
| Rugby Centre Northampton sig RY1052 02/02/2018 at 20:22 #105661 | |
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Afterbrunel
94 posts |
Headshot119: Thank you for this. I have not been back here for a couple of weeks because of offensive posts by other people, but let us see how we go from here. "1) At the point you have made 4L97 none-ARS what colour is it's headcode?" Well, some time previously. Its description is in magenta. "2) Is the game you are playing loaded from a saved game?" Yes [Did] "3) RY 1052 properly reverted to normal after the passage of 4O86." Yes. Nigel O Log in to reply |
| Rugby Centre Northampton sig RY1052 02/02/2018 at 20:34 #105663 | |
Steamer
3985 posts |
Afterbrunel in post 105661 said:"2) Is the game you are playing loaded from a saved game?"Could you also answer the third question: headshot119 said: 3) If 2) is yes, what version of the loader did you start the game under?This will help to identify whether or not it's related to a known bug in the last (or last-but-one, can't recall off the top of my head) Loader version. This relates to the version of the Loader when you first started the game from the 'New Game' screen. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 02/02/2018 at 20:36 by Steamer Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Rugby Centre Northampton sig RY1052 02/02/2018 at 20:38 #105664 | |
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Afterbrunel
94 posts |
Noisynol: Thank you for your reply. I have not been here for a couple of weeks due to bullying messages from another user. You asked: "The issue is not with 4O86 OR 4L97. When you cancel RY1052 signal you get a message in the message window stating 'Route cancelled for 2Y54 - made non-ARS'". You are mistaken. I did not cancel any route. 2Y54 passed and the route cancelled automatically as normal. "So the next questions are a) Can you confirm if you routed the train manually from RY1052 signal." 2Y54 yes; 4O86 and 4L97 no. b) Did you at any stage edit 2Y54's timetable to show SL at Northampton North Jn. No. But 2Y54 has passed and RY1052 has reverted; the route taken by 2Y54 has nothing to do with later clearance of signals. c) Did you at any stage observe 2Y54 drop out of ARS and then you manually put it back in ARS, Yes, when 2Y54 got to RY1038 I made it ARS in order that the automatic description update would take place on arrival (correctly) at platform 4. This has nothing to do with the subsequent behaviour of RY1052. d) Did you at any stage alter how 2Y54 runs in any way?" I routed it manually via the U&DSL, otherwise no. But after its passage this has no impact on the subsequent behaviour of RY1052. But it looks as if you are trying to prove that somehow it is my fault. The fact is that after the passage of 4O86 and 2Y54 with RY1052 at danger, for no good reason RY1052 prepares to (and later actually does) clear to the diverging route into the Slow Line on the approach of 4L97, whether or not 4L97 is ARS enabled. Nigel O Log in to reply |
| Rugby Centre Northampton sig RY1052 02/02/2018 at 21:06 #105665 | |
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Steamer
3985 posts |
OK, as far as I can tell (I don't own the sim so can't play the save for more than a couple of minutes): On initial loading, yes, ARS attempts to route 4L97 incorrectly towards the Up Slow. This occurs even though 4L97 is non-ARS, and even though there are more than 2 green signals ahead of 4L97, so the route definitely shouldn't be set. Once the route has been set and the points finish moving, the route can be cancelled, the ARS sub-areas re-enabled, ARS for 4L97 enabled, and ARS handles the train correctly from then on. On starting the timetable from scratch and dropping 4L97's headcode in at RY1062, then advancing it along the line, ARS behaves correctly and routes it on the fast line when the description is interposed at RY1056. The above suggests (though it would take Geoff or Clive to confirm it) that something has got into a corrupted state internally, quite possibly when the game was saved, as this is a known problem with the last or last-but-one Loader. Therefore, please could you confirm which loader the original game was started on, as Headshot asked further up the thread? "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Rugby Centre Northampton sig RY1052 02/02/2018 at 21:38 #105667 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
Nigel, I am not in any way trying to imply that anyone is at fault. However, you are mistaken in one thing and that is that 2Y54 is the cause of the issue. I did not ask if you cancelled the route, I was pointing out that if, running the save you supplied you then cancel the route you get the message "route cancelled for 2Y54". Despite the fact that the train has passed the signal, the ARS thinks that it has not, hence the questions I then followed with to try and ascertain why the ARS thought 2Y54 had not gone past that signal. Headshot did ask which version of the loader you started the game under, this would then be followed by, did you start from a save under a different version of the loader as this may be the cause of your issues. If you can answer that then it will help to establish what has occurred. Noisynoel Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Afterbrunel |
| Rugby Centre Northampton sig RY1052 02/02/2018 at 21:41 #105669 | |
postal
5265 posts 
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As a general point in regard to issues like this, many copies of the sim have been bought and have been in use for some time. If something fundamental like this arises the likelihood is that someone will already have seen the problem and reported it. As this is a new problem that has not been reported before, that makes it unlikely that there is a significant problem with the sim or core code as written when used as most people would use it. Therefore there needs to be some in depth investigation into the circumstances leading up to the events which means that some in depth questions need to be answered. This is not a reflection on the person posing the problem and neither is it a finger-pointing exercise. If we genuinely want to get to the root of the problem, then those with the technical expertise to try and help will be asking detailed questions to help them with their investigations. Even if some of those questions seem a little off the beaten track or are not asked in the most polite of manners, they have all been asked for a specific purpose and unless answers to all of the questions are forthcoming then the collective brain-power here may find it difficult to come up with a resolution to the problem. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 02/02/2018 at 21:42 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Rugby Centre Northampton sig RY1052 02/02/2018 at 23:50 #105675 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
postal in post 105669 said:As a general point in regard to issues like this, many copies of the sim have been bought and have been in use for some time. If something fundamental like this arises the likelihood is that someone will already have seen the problem and reported it. As this is a new problem that has not been reported before, that makes it unlikely that there is a significant problem with the sim or core code as written when used as most people would use it.Not quite. It may be a bug that only triggers under very exact circumstances. I remember an issue with Willesden some while ago where the entire loader would just hang. We had once saved game that reproduced it, but IIRC nobody else could. It turned out that there was a bug in the sim data that meant there was a closed loop if a train proceeded in the wrong direction down a particular line with certain points in certain positions. Nobody had sent a train that way, but the exact sequence of events caused the core code to look backwards along the line (for good reason) and get stuck in that loop (argh). postal in post 105669 said: Right. We need **EXACT** details to avoid being trapped in a shoal of red herrings. Nothing to do with SimSig, but I remember a story about someone who could only log in when sitting at their desk but not when standing at it. It was only when someone else stood and watched very carefully did they discover that two of the key caps were exchanged: when sitting, the person touch-typed their password but when standing they looked at the keyboard. Then there was the Ecuador bug, so called because it was only triggered when someone typed "Quito" into a field ... Log in to reply |
| Rugby Centre Northampton sig RY1052 31/03/2018 at 07:48 #107140 | |
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Afterbrunel
94 posts |
Thank you for a courteous reply. I haven't been here for a couple of months because of hostility in another forum. I also accept Clive's point about the person who could log in sitting down but not standing up. However you will appreciate I can't now replicate the sequence of events (to answer your questions) because I now have a later version of the loader and if I load saved versions (from when I was having the difficulty) I get an incompatibility warning. I'll try running the sim as a new sequence from 04:45 again :-( and see what happens. It may obviously take some time and won't exactly replicate anyway due to trains running out of course. But thanks again for your courtesy. Log in to reply |