Chaining Diagram

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Chaining Diagram 03/04/2018 at 21:10 #107266
mfcooper
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707 posts 		I have spent some time trying to sort this out. I'd like to know what you all think.

See: The Chaining Diagram.
Last edited: 03/04/2018 at 21:12 by mfcooper
Reason: formatting
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Chaining Diagram 03/04/2018 at 21:13 #107267
postal
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5269 posts 		mfcooper in post 107266 said:
I have spent some time trying to sort this out. I'd like to know what you all think.

See: The Chaining Diagram.
Nice work, Matt.

Does make it obvious where there are gaps to be filled!
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Chaining Diagram 03/04/2018 at 21:29 #107269
whatlep
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377 posts 		mfcooper in post 107266 said:
I have spent some time trying to sort this out. I'd like to know what you all think.
Nice job. Warrington and Preston very much needed, especially in their original 1970s glory!
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Chaining Diagram 03/04/2018 at 21:33 #107270
HST125Scorton
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1198 posts
Online 		whatlep in post 107269 said:
mfcooper in post 107266 said:
I have spent some time trying to sort this out. I'd like to know what you all think.
Nice job. Warrington and Preston very much needed, especially in their original 1970s glory!
Thanks for producing this mfcooper really helps when wanting to start planning a possible chained host.

Whatlep I agree with you as I have a nice handy 1987 station timetable sat in storage for Preston that I could use to build a timetable. With that been said I would like to see Crewe and Winsford simulated could be while though..
Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer
Last edited: 03/04/2018 at 21:33 by HST125Scorton
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Chaining Diagram 03/04/2018 at 21:47 #107271
Steamer
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3997 posts 		Excellent job!

A couple of minor corrections:

*Worksop won't chain to Trent or Sheffield at present
*Waterloo is on the Loader
*A Lewes simulation is listed, however this was never released; Lewes has only appeared as part of East Coastway.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Chaining Diagram 03/04/2018 at 22:04 #107272
Peter Bennet
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5419 posts 		Very good. Does Bristol not chain with Westbury and Swindon? I know I did all the data for it and records show that I zipped at 20.43 on 20/12/2009 to send back to Kurt. 20/12/09 is also the last release date.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Chaining Diagram 03/04/2018 at 22:07 #107274
headshot119
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4869 posts 		Peter Bennet in post 107272 said:
Very good. Does Bristol not chain with Westbury and Swindon? I know I did all the data for it and records show that I zipped at 20.43 on 20/12/2009 to send back to Kurt. 20/12/09 is also the last release date.

Peter
They haven't chained properly for a while now, strange things happen.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Chaining Diagram 03/04/2018 at 22:17 #107275
Peter Bennet
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5419 posts 		headshot119 in post 107274 said:
Peter Bennet in post 107272 said:
Very good. Does Bristol not chain with Westbury and Swindon? I know I did all the data for it and records show that I zipped at 20.43 on 20/12/2009 to send back to Kurt. 20/12/09 is also the last release date.

Peter
They haven't chained properly for a while now, strange things happen.
8 years by the look of it!

Pity I can't fix it now.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Chaining Diagram 03/04/2018 at 23:24 #107276
Muzer
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718 posts 		Nice! I still maintain for my own records the map I used to produce showing all the sims as a crude airbrushed overlay on the Project Mapping map. I had previously stopped uploading them as I figured not many people used them, and it's quite a large/cumbersome file so it's a pain to get it small enough to sensibly upload. However, these days it seems the Paint program I use is much better at compressing PNGs than it used to be, so I've uploaded my latest version http://tim32.org/~muzer/SimSig-pax-map.png

Ugly as sin, yes, I know, and apologies once again to Andrew Smithers for butchering his rail map like this, but I like using it as a quick geographical aid if I need to quickly know if a sim exists.

Key for my additions:

Red airbrush: free sim
Yellow airbrush: paid sim

Each sim is labelled somewhere with (one of) its name(s).

Each chain is a pair of thick, solid lines on the boundary. The line on each side denotes how "ready" that sim is for the chain.

Two green lines means the chain works.

One green line and one orange means that the sim on the green side appears (from an outsider's perspective; usually through reading manuals etc.) to support the chain, but the other sim needs updating to do so.
Two orange lines means both sims need updating to support the chain.
A green and a red line means that the sim on one side exists and appears (with the same caveats as above) to support chaining in that direction, but the other sim doesn't even exist.

Other lines include light grey to denote where one sim ends but another (usually larger) sim continues (eg Euston/West Hampstead, Royston/Cambridge, Cowlairs/Central Scotland, Waterloo/Wimbledon, etc.), and a black line for particularly confusing boundaries where one sim appears to touch another on the map but are totally unconnected (in this case the only one to use it is the Drain's interface with Wimbledon/Waterloo sims). Very confusing chaining boundaries are sometimes labelled.




On the topic of Bristol I have it listed here as chaining with Swindon and Exeter but not Westbury. Maybe this needs another test. Off the top of my head though, I believe Swindon might work but just throw up a load of error messages at the start?
Last edited: 03/04/2018 at 23:37 by Muzer
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 06:56 #107278
Splodge
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721 posts 		I think Preston could be pretty interesting in its current state - with the Blackpool blockade there are a lot of additional shunts making use of nearly all the siding space around the station!
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 08:44 #107279
jc92
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3701 posts 		HST125Scorton in post 107270 said:
whatlep in post 107269 said:
mfcooper in post 107266 said:
I have spent some time trying to sort this out. I'd like to know what you all think.
Nice job. Warrington and Preston very much needed, especially in their original 1970s glory!
Thanks for producing this mfcooper really helps when wanting to start planning a possible chained host.

Whatlep I agree with you as I have a nice handy 1987 station timetable sat in storage for Preston that I could use to build a timetable. With that been said I would like to see Crewe and Winsford simulated could be while though..
I have the 1973 WTTs, trip notices and I know someone who has a station working book. I can guarantee that will happen if/when theyre produced but it wont be me writing it.

As an aside i wrote a 1973 carlisle timetable that ive never tested or finished which is fun with class 50s working certain trains in pairs from preston.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 08:47 #107280
jc92
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3701 posts 		Steamer in post 107271 said:
Excellent job!

A couple of minor corrections:

*Worksop won't chain to Trent or Sheffield at present
*Waterloo is on the Loader
*A Lewes simulation is listed, however this was never released; Lewes has only appeared as part of East Coastway.
Im sure Worksop will chain to sheffield. It produces an error message but practically you can get trains from one to the other. I only tried it once or twice when first released tho.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 10:37 #107281
DriverCurran
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695 posts 		Steamer in post 107271 said:
Excellent job!

A couple of minor corrections:

*Worksop won't chain to Trent or Sheffield at present
*Waterloo is on the Loader
*A Lewes simulation is listed, however this was never released; Lewes has only appeared as part of East Coastway.
I did produce Lewes for one of the meets, from memory it was Brighton and Keymer at the left hand end, I remember it was a nightmare to switch it the other way round to fit onto East Coastway, which had started production from the Eastbourne end when it was suggested to do Lewes for the meet.

Paul
You have to get a red before you can get any other colour
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 11:15 #107282
Soton_Speed
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285 posts 		Muzer in post 107276 said:
On the topic of Bristol I have it listed here as chaining with Swindon and Exeter but not Westbury. Maybe this needs another test. Off the top of my head though, I believe Swindon might work but just throw up a load of error messages at the start?
Bristol will chain with Swindon and Westbury but there are issues with TD stepping at the Bradford on Avon fringe (Westbury) and a route cannot be set from W121 on the Dn Trowbridge when chained.
In Zone 6, no one can hear you scream...
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 12:41 #107285
headshot119
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4869 posts 		Soton_Speed in post 107282 said:
Muzer in post 107276 said:
On the topic of Bristol I have it listed here as chaining with Swindon and Exeter but not Westbury. Maybe this needs another test. Off the top of my head though, I believe Swindon might work but just throw up a load of error messages at the start?
Bristol will chain with Swindon and Westbury but there are issues with TD stepping at the Bradford on Avon fringe (Westbury) and a route cannot be set from W121 on the Dn Trowbridge when chained.
So they don't chain then!
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 13:49 #107290
Soton_Speed
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285 posts 		headshot119 in post 107285 said:
Soton_Speed in post 107282 said:
Muzer in post 107276 said:
On the topic of Bristol I have it listed here as chaining with Swindon and Exeter but not Westbury. Maybe this needs another test. Off the top of my head though, I believe Swindon might work but just throw up a load of error messages at the start?
Bristol will chain with Swindon and Westbury but there are issues with TD stepping at the Bradford on Avon fringe (Westbury) and a route cannot be set from W121 on the Dn Trowbridge when chained.
So they don't chain then!
As far as I can tell train data is passed between the sims and the rest is effectively failures that can be worked around. Have had several multiplayer sessions where this has been the case.
In Zone 6, no one can hear you scream...
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 16:39 #107299
JamesN
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1611 posts 		Soton_Speed in post 107290 said:
headshot119 in post 107285 said:
Soton_Speed in post 107282 said:
Muzer in post 107276 said:
On the topic of Bristol I have it listed here as chaining with Swindon and Exeter but not Westbury. Maybe this needs another test. Off the top of my head though, I believe Swindon might work but just throw up a load of error messages at the start?
Bristol will chain with Swindon and Westbury but there are issues with TD stepping at the Bradford on Avon fringe (Westbury) and a route cannot be set from W121 on the Dn Trowbridge when chained.
So they don't chain then!
As far as I can tell train data is passed between the sims and the rest is effectively failures that can be worked around. Have had several multiplayer sessions where this has been the case.
But it should be seamless... Officially or Unofficially you can't really advertise something as being there when you have to work around it all the time.
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 19:56 #107303
Muzer
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718 posts 		If that's the case, that you can't advertise something as working if you have to use workarounds, you can't really advertise Bristol as being a working sim as you can't send trains through the Avonmouth loading/unloading sidings as they get stuck ;)

So is there anything stopping Bristol chaining with Swindon? I noticed both of those things are Bristol/Westbury issues.
Last edited: 04/04/2018 at 19:56 by Muzer
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 19:59 #107304
headshot119
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4869 posts 		Muzer in post 107303 said:
If that's the case, that you can't advertise something as working if you have to use workarounds, you can't really advertise Bristol as being a working sim as you can't send trains through the Avonmouth loading/unloading sidings as they get stuck ;)

So is there anything stopping Bristol chaining with Swindon? I noticed both of those things are Bristol/Westbury issues.
From memory the "wrong" direction doesn't work, so you can't describe it as working properly either.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 20:13 #107305
mfcooper
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707 posts 		I have updated the map to reflect some of these comments.

Muzer in post 107303 said:
If that's the case, that you can't advertise something as working if you have to use workarounds, you can't really advertise Bristol as being a working sim as you can't send trains through the Avonmouth loading/unloading sidings as they get stuck ;)
This map does not refer to product quality, but the fact a released simulation exists.

A solid line between simulations refers to a sim that chains properly.
A dotted line can mean anything from a single error pop-up box that doesn't really affect trains transferring all the way through to the chain not existing (yet?).
Last edited: 04/04/2018 at 20:15 by mfcooper
Reason: formatting
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Chaining Diagram 04/04/2018 at 21:59 #107306
Muzer
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718 posts 		mfcooper in post 107305 said:
This map does not refer to product quality, but the fact a released simulation exists.
Sorry, I didn't mean that seriously; it was intended as a joking reply to JamesN's point that you can't advertise something as working unless it works 100% without bugs.

Cheers for the clarifications!
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Chaining Diagram 05/04/2018 at 18:54 #107327
GeoffM
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6380 posts
Online 		Nobody is advertising or implying anything. Matt kindly produced the map in his own time as a visual aide to the sims available and possible chaining. There may be issues but don't let that detract from the effort he put into it.
SimSig Boss
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Chaining Diagram 06/04/2018 at 16:35 #107351
whatlep
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377 posts 		Splodge in post 107278 said:
I think Preston could be pretty interesting in its current state - with the Blackpool blockade there are a lot of additional shunts making use of nearly all the siding space around the station!
Possibly, but I don't think you can beat merging Manchester/Liverpool portions AND changing the engines of both for an electric going north after the May 6th 1974 electrification on to Glasgow. Some serious shunting with passengers on board (and at Carstairs too, of course).
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Chaining Diagram 06/04/2018 at 17:15 #107352
Splodge
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721 posts 		Undoubtedly, though that was a bit before my time! I do remember CrossCountry services doing loco changes there in the early 90's though I doubt it would be quite as intense as the 70s period!
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Chaining Diagram 06/04/2018 at 20:55 #107358
Peter Bennet
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5419 posts 		Splodge in post 107352 said:
Undoubtedly, though that was a bit before my time! I do remember CrossCountry services doing loco changes there in the early 90's though I doubt it would be quite as intense as the 70s period!
Not only loco changes, there were joins and splits involving 08 shunters.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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