TCFs in dark territory

The rule in NSW for passing an Automatic (permissive) signal at Stop is for the Driver to try and contact the NCO (Signaller) after a prescribed time limit. If communicatons are not available, the Driver can perform a risk assessment then pass the signal at Stop without authority. This is difficult to simulate so trains must still be called past by the NCO. I will note this in the manual. Thank you for bringing it up.

The issue of a train bobbing between "0km/h" and "stopped at signal" is a genuine bug and is being addressed. (Mantis 21365)

Further to this, I talked a train past 203.6 in the dark territory at Bowning due to a TCF there. Apart from the bobbing speeds mentioned above, I also found that the train hasn’t stopped either at 201.1 or YJ24 to report in – it is still happily toddling towards Yass Junction at 32km/h.

I do not have a save from before I sent the train through, but I do have one of the situation as it now stands (with the train slowly creeping towards Yass Junction). The train in question is 3MB4.

Excellent sim, by the way!

Gwasanaethau in post 110595 said:

Further to this, I talked a train past 203.6 in the dark territory at Bowning due to a TCF there. Apart from the bobbing speeds mentioned above, I also found that the train hasn’t stopped either at 201.1 or YJ24 to report in – it is still happily toddling towards Yass Junction at 32km/h.

Not sure I fully understand? Where was the TCF (if you could see it)?

Mattyq in post 110654 said:

Gwasanaethau in post 110595 said:

Further to this, I talked a train past 203.6 in the dark territory at Bowning due to a TCF there. Apart from the bobbing speeds mentioned above, I also found that the train hasn’t stopped either at 201.1 or YJ24 to report in – it is still happily toddling towards Yass Junction at 32km/h.

Not sure I fully understand? Where was the TCF (if you could see it)?

It wasn’t visible, but I believe it would’ve been between 203.6 and the end of the dark territory (roughly where the red arrow is pointing in the attached image).

I asked the driver of the train to pass the signal (203.6) at danger and examine the line, hence why they were only moving at 32km/h. I was expecting them to stop at the next signal and call in (as they would normally do in the English sims), but they just kept going at 32km/h.

I ended up solving it by reverting YJ10 back to double-red, expecting the driver to stop there when they reached it. They ended up stopping at YJ20 (at yellow) to report that the line was clear. They accelerated to line speed after that.

As an aside. Can anyone explain what a dark territory actually is? It looks to me like a remote automatic interlocking that doesn't report anything back to the controlling box. Is this where former local boxes have closed and been left local so to speak?

jc92 in post 110560 said:

As an aside. Can anyone explain what a dark territory actually is? It looks to me like a remote automatic interlocking that doesn't report anything back to the controlling box. Is this where former local boxes have closed and been left local so to speak?

Just a side note on this: there are other definitions of dark territory around the world that differ from this. The US version, for example, usually doesn't have interlockings and sometimes relies on the train crew moving points. But even for the US that's only one definition.

GeoffM in post 110718 said:

jc92 in post 110560 said:

As an aside. Can anyone explain what a dark territory actually is? It looks to me like a remote automatic interlocking that doesn't report anything back to the controlling box. Is this where former local boxes have closed and been left local so to speak?

Just a side note on this: there are other definitions of dark territory around the world that differ from this. The US version, for example, usually doesn't have interlockings and sometimes relies on the train crew moving points. But even for the US that's only one definition.

Just to confuse matters, "Dark Territory" is also used in Australia for safeworking systems where the position of the train is not directly relayed back to the Train Controller/Signaller and movement of Main Line points are usually done by train crew, even if remotely from the Drivers cab. This can be token (Staff) Working, Train Order Working or QLD's DTC system.

To REALLY confuse matters, NSW's Train Order system has GPS tracking of trains. Therefore, the exact position of all trains is relayed back to the Controller. That said, it is still referred to as "Dark Territory".

…

Ah, asking the Driver to examine the line, I didn't pick that bit up in the 1st message. The trains bobbing between 0km/h and "stopped at signal" appears to be causing many issues. It's been logged to those more knowledgeable than me. I'll log the train not stopping at an auto as a separate issue.

Mantis 21374

Thank you for your time and effort. :-)

Mattyq in post 110745 said:

GeoffM in post 110718 said:

jc92 in post 110560 said:

As an aside. Can anyone explain what a dark territory actually is? It looks to me like a remote automatic interlocking that doesn't report anything back to the controlling box. Is this where former local boxes have closed and been left local so to speak?

Just a side note on this: there are other definitions of dark territory around the world that differ from this. The US version, for example, usually doesn't have interlockings and sometimes relies on the train crew moving points. But even for the US that's only one definition.

Just to confuse matters, "Dark Territory" is also used in Australia for safeworking systems where the position of the train is not directly relayed back to the Train Controller/Signaller and movement of Main Line points are usually done by train crew, even if remotely from the Drivers cab. This can be token (Staff) Working, Train Order Working or QLD's DTC system.

To REALLY confuse matters, NSW's Train Order system has GPS tracking of trains. Therefore, the exact position of all trains is relayed back to the Controller. That said, it is still referred to as "Dark Territory".

So, in summary, Australia is as confusing and has as many exceptions and variations as the UK does!

Thanks for the replies