Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable

This is a complex timetable and is challenging for experienced users.

The TT has been written to include all of the trains in a typical week so that every day in the TT is different depending on which day trains are scheduled to run. When you open the sim you can either select a TT to run on one of the days of the week or the generic TT which will then randomly start on one of the five days. The dated TTs include all of the trains for the five days but are locked to load the selected day then run the appropriate trains.

Because the shunt moves (particularly in regard to the Citadel station pilots) differ from day to day, there is a full set of simplifiers showing the moves required each day for the Trip and Pilot workings towards the foot of the simulation manual on the Wiki. It is recommended that you have the relevant pages to hand when you run the sim.

Because the TT is complex and has been manually created, there are bound to be typos and errors that still remain despite the hundreds of hours of testing that have gone into the TT. Please accept Pascal's and my apologies for these errors. We will do our best to put any errors right if they can be reported here.

Up to 0315 and remembering why I enjoyed this TT so much!

One question as it's something I haven't seen before - what do the question marks within instructions mean/refer to? For example, I have 5P01 heading to Carlisle, and its first instruction on arrival is N?:4P01. Is it related to decisions/conditions?

Splodge in post 110975 said:

Up to 0315 and remembering why I enjoyed this TT so much!

One question as it's something I haven't seen before - what do the question marks within instructions mean/refer to? For example, I have 5P01 heading to Carlisle, and its first instruction on arrival is N?:4P01. Is it related to decisions/conditions?

I think it may have something with the Joining train getting Lost As i seen this on other trains.

Keith the tagging have come from the LMR 1981 edition of the Marshalling of freight trains book I have & the 1981 Eastern Region Freight train marshalling book I've also got. This timetable will take a long time to finish as I can't quite manage this timetable at times at 1:1.5 speed.

I'm finding that most, if not all, Up departures from Carlisle Yard aren't allowed enough time between entering the simulation and passing Caldew Jn- most are losing about 2 minutes, even though they're running on clear signals. 6M63 is one such train that I've explicitly checked, but the timings do seem tight for the rest.

Steamer in post 111095 said:

I'm finding that most, if not all, Up departures from Carlisle Yard aren't allowed enough time between entering the simulation and passing Caldew Jn- most are losing about 2 minutes, even though they're running on clear signals. 6M63 is one such train that I've explicitly checked, but the timings do seem tight for the rest.

Just a thought: are the TT timings actually realistic? (I don't know). I remember St. Pancras to Cricklewood timings in the 1980s were way too optimistic but nobody seemed to care that every down train was 2-3 minutes late. I believe it was even proved mathematically to be impossible.

Joe makes a good point regarding the departure time from Kingmoor marshalling yard. Kingmoor marshalling yard was the largest yard on the UK railway network. So in the Mandatory or Conditional WTT it gives the location as to what part of the yard the train departs from, but there aren't any specific timings points in any BR publication which give details of how long trains take from departing the yard to when they enter onto Carlisle PSB. So trains losing a bit of time is something you'd have to live with I'm afraid. All I'd say to Steamer is the fact that the name of the game with SimSig & signallers back in the BR era was to keep the traffic moving within the safety parameters, but you'd struggle to find anywhere on the network where line converged & was very busy with traffic where you could get everything through right time. Yes I can definately confirm that the timings in the 1979-1980 Carlisle timetable are all as per the WTTs used.

58050 in post 111114 said:

Joe makes a good point regarding the departure time from Kingmoor marshalling yard. Kingmoor marshalling yard was the largest yard on the UK railway network. So in the Mandatory or Conditional WTT it gives the location as to what part of the yard the train departs from, but there aren't any specific timings points in any BR publication which give details of how long trains take from departing the yard to when they enter onto Carlisle PSB. So trains losing a bit of time is something you'd have to live with I'm afraid. All I'd say to Steamer is the fact that the name of the game with SimSig & signallers back in the BR era was to keep the traffic moving within the safety parameters, but you'd struggle to find anywhere on the network where line converged & was very busy with traffic where you could get everything through right time. Yes I can definately confirm that the timings in the 1979-1980 Carlisle timetable are all as per the WTTs used.

Given that it takes 2-3 minutes between a train entering the simulation and the train passing CE484/CE485, and that a 2-3 minute delay at Caldew is virtually guaranteed, I think there's a strong argument that the timetable considers 'departing the yard' to mean passing signals 484/485. Also, wouldn't the Kingmoor Yard signaller/shunters consider the departure time to be the time at which the train leaves their control, rather than the time it starts moving out of an internal siding?

I fully accept that timetable conflicts can and do happen, especially with the diverted ECML services knocking around.

Steamer in post 111120 said:

58050 in post 111114 said:

Joe makes a good point regarding the departure time from Kingmoor marshalling yard. Kingmoor marshalling yard was the largest yard on the UK railway network. So in the Mandatory or Conditional WTT it gives the location as to what part of the yard the train departs from, but there aren't any specific timings points in any BR publication which give details of how long trains take from departing the yard to when they enter onto Carlisle PSB. So trains losing a bit of time is something you'd have to live with I'm afraid. All I'd say to Steamer is the fact that the name of the game with SimSig & signallers back in the BR era was to keep the traffic moving within the safety parameters, but you'd struggle to find anywhere on the network where line converged & was very busy with traffic where you could get everything through right time. Yes I can definately confirm that the timings in the 1979-1980 Carlisle timetable are all as per the WTTs used.

Given that it takes 2-3 minutes between a train entering the simulation and the train passing CE484/CE485, and that a 2-3 minute delay at Caldew is virtually guaranteed, I think there's a strong argument that the timetable considers 'departing the yard' to mean passing signals 484/485. Also, wouldn't the Kingmoor Yard signaller/shunters consider the departure time to be the time at which the train leaves their control, rather than the time it starts moving out of an internal siding?

I fully accept that timetable conflicts can and do happen, especially with the diverted ECML services knocking around.

Steamer, Although this is very much now the modern era, at one of the locations I have under my watch from the ivory tower of power the departure time shown in all the publications and on our tracking system is the time that the train is booked off the stops. Each train then has a good twenty minutes before it even dreams of presenting itself at the departure signal, and it also gives a good grounding in telephone discipline to stop yourself ringing the yard movement co-ordinator to find out why the train is 15 minutes late.

To bring it back to sims, when I do the Brighton 1982/83 wtt (Usual time scales apply!!!!) then trains from Lovers Walk Depot will present at the exit signal 10 minutes after their 'booked' time from the depot, it seems trains are given 15 minutes to go stops to stops.

Paul

I know John when he managed to complete his first run through achieved 95%+ in his score & anybody getting a score in the 90%+ range would be doing excellently bearing in mind the complexity of the timetable.

To bring it back to sims, when I do the Brighton 1982/83 wtt (Usual time scales apply!!!!) then trains from Lovers Walk Depot will present at the exit signal 10 minutes after their 'booked' time from the depot, it seems trains are given 15 minutes to go stops to stops.