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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 26/08/2018 at 17:52 #111521 | |
Ray
211 posts |
I have just finished this simulation which has taken a week (sometimes the speed set at the lowest). I have thoroughly enjoyed the TT and can't fault it. Thank you to the author for producing such an excellent TT. I much prefer the challenge of loco hauled services with plenty of RR and loco changes. By the way, what has happened to the diverting route ? Will the bridge ever be restored ? Perhaps freight to/from Scotland is handled in a different way from the 80s. Anyone care to comment ?
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: 58050 |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 26/08/2018 at 17:56 #111522 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
Ray in post 111521 said:I have just finished this simulation which has taken a week (sometimes the speed set at the lowest). I have thoroughly enjoyed the TT and can't fault it. Thank you to the author for producing such an excellent TT. I much prefer the challenge of loco hauled services with plenty of RR and loco changes. By the way, what has happened to the diverting route ? Will the bridge ever be restored ? Perhaps freight to/from Scotland is handled in a different way from the 80s. Anyone care to comment ?The goods lines were closed after an accident involving a runaway portion of a split freightliner train wrecked the caldew river bridge. BR decided not to replace it because the level of freight at the time didn't warrant it. Freight ended up running via the station and still does although I believe there's been several calls to reinstate the good lines now that the railway is busier again. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 26/08/2018 at 18:12 #111524 | |
58050
2659 posts |
Ray if you read the sim manual there's a section in there referring to Mr. W.J. Taylor who was the signalman in Carlisle PSB the night the Down freightliner became divided on its approach to Carlisle. Mr. Taylor was hailed a hero had the subsequent de-railment occurred in Citadel station there would have been loss of life as well. Tom the sim devloper created the sim in his honour & it so happened that I now have his actual Carlisle Arrival & Departure Book in my collection with his name on the cover & also all the Penmanshiel diverted trains written in the book by his own hand, hence the reason for me writing this timetable. Yes I do agree with you about thge challenge & it's alot more interesting then compared to the railway of today. Needless to say following the de-railemnt of the rear poortion of the train the bridge & the railway were never re=newed. You can actually watch an intervieww with him about the incident on You Tube taken from a Nationwide programme back in the day if you care to look for it. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 27/08/2018 at 00:47 #111540 | |
Soton_Speed
285 posts |
Have just run through a Monday 'shift' which was definitely quiet for this TT - the guest appearance of the Flying Moneypit was nice... Just a couple of very minor queries: 4S44 is the only class 4 freight north of Carnforth in the small hours of Monday despite all of the other class 4 freights being labeled SX? 4S89 is listed in the description as MX yet runs - typo? The rule regulating 6S73 leaving Kingmoor references wrong the version of the train. Is Trip 34 MX ? - as its entry is governed by a rule of the exit into Collier Lane of the MX portion of Trip 03. 6S32MO has an enforced dwell time of 15mins at Carlisle station - are there any notes why this is the case? In Zone 6, no one can hear you scream... Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 27/08/2018 at 01:30 #111541 | |
postal
5264 posts 
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Soton_Speed in post 111540 said:Have just run through a Monday 'shift' which was definitely quiet for this TT - the guest appearance of the Flying Moneypit was nice...SX designation from trains in the Mon - Sat WTT and shows the day that the journey started. I don't have the WTTs to hand so I can only assume that Pascal checked the WTTs and 4S44 departs N Wales on Sunday whereas the other SX trains don't show in the Sunday TT. If Pascal reports differently I'll amend the TT. Quote: 4S89 is listed in the description as MX yet runs - typo?Decision missed from TT. Will not run Monday when update is pushed out. Quote: The rule regulating 6S73 leaving Kingmoor references wrong the version of the train.Rule amended. Quote: Is Trip 34 MX ? - as its entry is governed by a rule of the exit into Collier Lane of the MX portion of Trip 03.Good spot. TT amended so rule only applies MX Quote: 6S32MO has an enforced dwell time of 15mins at Carlisle station - are there any notes why this is the case?Train carrying hazardous chemicals. Dwell time while train is inspected to ensure safety. Thanks for taking the time to report the issues. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Soton_Speed |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 27/08/2018 at 01:48 #111542 | |
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RainbowNines
272 posts |
Ray in post 111521 said:I have just finished this simulation which has taken a week (sometimes the speed set at the lowest). I have thoroughly enjoyed the TT and can't fault it. Thank you to the author for producing such an excellent TT. I much prefer the challenge of loco hauled services with plenty of RR and loco changes. By the way, what has happened to the diverting route ? Will the bridge ever be restored ? Perhaps freight to/from Scotland is handled in a different way from the 80s. Anyone care to comment ?If nothing else, they upgraded the middle through sidings to be “fully” signalled - something you can see in the modern era version of the sim. I was at Carlisle in evening peak recently. To be honest I was of the view that, even if the freight traffic demanded it, the decreased passenger traffic (at least in terms of dwell times, loco changes etc) leaves the station with a bit of surplus through capacity. Although there are probably times where that’s not the case. Another 75 minutes chalked up - survived the little rush between 0230-0300 and still at 83% at 0315 Weds. By now on “old” Carlisle I’d be dipping well below 80 and occasionally 75%, so pretty pleased! One thing I noted - I signalled 7Z01 out of Oxenholme Engineers to back down onto the branch. A class 5 train (5J81?) was bearing down but was running early so signalled it to stop in the platform. Despite the overlap ending well short of the crossover, I couldn’t then signal 7Z01 from up to down until the overlap dropped out. The manual refers to this location in reference to signalling a train to the UGL, but nothing about the UM>DM crossover... is that behaviour as intended? If so would it be worth a note in the manual? Cheers! Last edited: 27/08/2018 at 01:50 by RainbowNines Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 27/08/2018 at 09:50 #111546 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
58050 in post 111453 said:kbarber in post 111450 said:slatteryc in post 111448 said:You wouldn't be referring to March depot by any chance Keith? Yes as you say alot of depots were like that. Toton & Bescot come to y mind from my own railway experiences.Its 1979 it was a different time back then lolTrue. For the most part, everyone was trying to get home as soon as. But there were some depots (no names, but one was just east of Peterborough) where they were always trying to spin things out for a bit of overtime. Long standing tradition... just read Gerry Fiennes on the subject. Indeed... I perhaps ought to have said a month east of P'boro (which is about right for how long it could take them to get there). Bescot men we had in & out of Willesden Brent usually seemed inclined to get on with the job, but then I think 6M92 (I think that was the headcode, but I could be wrong 30 years on) was a finishing turn. The one exception was one particular guard, whose peculiar combination of (extremely thick) Irish and Black Country accents made him just-about incomprehensible. His train preparation was extremely thorough, or at least we assume it must have been because he always found something that required fitters' attention. Always. At one stage I took that as a challenge and, having made up 6M92, had a word with the tapper to make sure he was particularly thorough. Every other train that night had a rather cursory exanmination I'm afraid, but 6M92 was done to an inch of its life. Guess what... our friend still found something wrong and ended up 25 or so late away! Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 27/08/2018 at 12:17 #111551 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
kbarber in post 111546 said:58050 in post 111453 said:kbarber in post 111450 said:slatteryc in post 111448 said:You wouldn't be referring to March depot by any chance Keith? Yes as you say alot of depots were like that. Toton & Bescot come to y mind from my own railway experiences.Its 1979 it was a different time back then lolTrue. For the most part, everyone was trying to get home as soon as. But there were some depots (no names, but one was just east of Peterborough) where they were always trying to spin things out for a bit of overtime. Long standing tradition... just read Gerry Fiennes on the subject. Every depot had them Keith in those days. Toton drivers working the Northfleet MGR trains to Bedford used to hang te job out so they'd end up doing 12hrs. We had 1 or 2 drivers like that at Bedford one inparticular called Mick Lewis who actually signed all routes from Penzance to Newcastle. I rode with him a few times on 6V53 Humber OR - Lindsey OT. Booked on OOC TMD for PNB & whenever went on there he'd always ask the TCS is he could work 6E69 back with a Cl.50. The method in his madness was that cos he was an ex Plymouth driver he signed them & he knew neither the Nottingham driver who would relieve us at Bedford nor the Immingham driver at Nottingham would know Cl.50s so he could work the train all the way back to Immingham on tractiuon & then return it to the Western Region once he got there. He would have done it too had they let him. He left Bedford & went to Derby, but he was the driver on that HST that went round Ferrybridge power station when it was signalled wrongly & was actually carrying passengers. Or Bescot driver Ray Poole aka Martini (anytime, anywhere). He was the last Bushbury man on the footplate & even drives on the mainline today & he's nearly 80 years old, but to speak to him he's like someone around 60 yrs old. I remeber once him telling me he was on a ballast train somewhere between Bescot & Wolverhampton & there had been a heavy snowfall. He never bailed out & was on duty for approx. 26 hours no relief. He wouldn't bail out. That obviously wouldn't happen today wityh all the health & safety & other beaurocracy. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 27/08/2018 at 21:43 #111585 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
58050 in post 111551 said:Wasn't it Saltley drivers who were described as "they'll know any road if there's an hour's overtime in it"? Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 27/08/2018 at 21:55 #111587 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
clive in post 111585 said:58050 in post 111551 said:Saltley men got the nickname 'Saltley Seagulls' cos they'd s**t on everyone. The seagull was the depot's emblem & they had a cast metal plate they used to attached to the front lamp bracket on the engine if they went road learnerning anywhere.Wasn't it Saltley drivers who were described as "they'll know any road if there's an hour's overtime in it"? Last edited: 27/08/2018 at 21:56 by 58050 Reason: corrected typo Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 27/08/2018 at 21:56 #111588 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
clive in post 111585 said:58050 in post 111551 said:A Saltley man was ready on the moon for Armstrong's back working.Wasn't it Saltley drivers who were described as "they'll know any road if there's an hour's overtime in it"? "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: whatlep |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 27/08/2018 at 22:10 #111592 | |
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Randallator
3 posts |
got as far as 2am, only a few minor delays
Last edited: 27/08/2018 at 22:16 by Randallator Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 27/08/2018 at 22:52 #111594 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Randallator in post 111592 said:got as far as 2am, only a few minor delaysWhen you get to the end you'll feel like pouring yourself a stiff drink to either celebrate you've completed the challenge or to calm your nerves down. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 28/08/2018 at 09:34 #111605 | |
Giantray
347 posts |
jc92 in post 111522 said:The bridge after the accident attached here.   Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Professionalism mean nothing around a bunch of Amateur wannabees! Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 28/08/2018 at 10:03 #111606 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
headshot119 in post 111588 said:clive in post 111585 said:No Karl, it was a Ripple Lane man.58050 in post 111551 said:A Saltley man was ready on the moon for Armstrong's back working.Wasn't it Saltley drivers who were described as "they'll know any road if there's an hour's overtime in it"? Log in to reply The following user said thank you: headshot119 |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 28/08/2018 at 11:54 #111608 | |
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postal
5264 posts
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kbarber in post 111606 said:headshot119 in post 111588 said:The Saltley man was already booking a mileage bonus for orbiting the moon with Michael Collins while Armstrong and Aldrin where waiting down below.clive in post 111585 said:No Karl, it was a Ripple Lane man.58050 in post 111551 said:A Saltley man was ready on the moon for Armstrong's back working.Wasn't it Saltley drivers who were described as "they'll know any road if there's an hour's overtime in it"? “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following users said thank you: kbarber, whatlep |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 28/08/2018 at 12:00 #111609 | |
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postal
5264 posts
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RainbowNines in post 111542 said:If nothing else, they upgraded the middle through sidings to be “fully” signalled - something you can see in the modern era version of the sim.They also made the Down Fast bi-directional for a short distance just to the North of Citadel to give a bit more flexibility about allowing trains to overtake each other. This is also included in the modern era. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 28/08/2018 at 16:16 #111616 | |
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slatteryc
254 posts |
Quote:got as far as 2am, only a few minor delays0200 ha ha ha wait for the storm to break in a few mins Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 28/08/2018 at 22:11 #111621 | |
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Giantray
347 posts |
Great TT, excellent makes you think about moves ahead. Can be chaotic when train crew do not turn up on time. For example, I was working the Wednesday TT, I got to about 0137 and 1M62 in platform 4 was waiting train crew, expected 20 mins late. I had 1M14 waiting outside to use platform 4 to do a loco change and shunt some stock. Platform 3 was available so I put 1M14 in there. 0M14, the loco off the train was scheduled to run from booked Platform 4 via CE295, through Platform 3 to Kingmoor Depot. But as 1M14 was now in Platform 3, the only option, as Platform 3 & 4, SB & SC were occupied, was shunt via CE291 then through Platform 1 to Kingmoor Depot. The problem was the TT does not see CE291 as an alternative to CE295, hence 1M14 off 1M14 carried on to CE365. I had to intervene, reverse the train and edit the schedule to skip CE295 and next timing point as Carlisle. Is this the way it should work?
Professionalism mean nothing around a bunch of Amateur wannabees! Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 29/08/2018 at 01:23 #111625 | |
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RainbowNines
272 posts |
slatteryc in post 111616 said:Quote:Not half - easy to tie yourself up in knots in that hour. Although I must say 0400-0500 is rather quiet, relatively! I even gave myself the luxury of a couple of presses of the ‘F’ key! - I’m normally a strict 1:1 player. So... nearly half 5 and I’m at 85% - now to keep wits about me and keep those trippers moving - stretch target is 90%!got as far as 2am, only a few minor delays0200 ha ha ha wait for the storm to break in a few mins I can’t get enough, really - so much variety and challenge. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 29/08/2018 at 09:31 #111627 | |
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postal
5264 posts
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RainbowNines in post 111625 said:I can’t get enough, really - so much variety and challenge.What always gets me is the way that everything is absolutely manic and you don't even have time to draw breath then you get a couple of TRTS and suddenly there is not a train in Citadel and you've got time to hear the birds singing and a quick look at the paper. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 29/08/2018 at 11:46 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 29/08/2018 at 15:07 #111637 | |
lazzer
634 posts |
RainbowNines in post 111625 said:slatteryc in post 111616 said:I restarted the game I've mentioned in earlier posts at around 08.00, after I made a few schoolboy errors due to a combination of being tired and being distracted from the sim by other things. Second time through, I'm at 06.00 and doing better than the first go. I've re-arranged my use of the scratch pad to keep track of things, and it's helping much more than the sticky notes I had on my first go.Quote:Not half - easy to tie yourself up in knots in that hour. Although I must say 0400-0500 is rather quiet, relatively! I even gave myself the luxury of a couple of presses of the ‘F’ key! - I’m normally a strict 1:1 player. So... nearly half 5 and I’m at 85% - now to keep wits about me and keep those trippers moving - stretch target is 90%!got as far as 2am, only a few minor delays0200 ha ha ha wait for the storm to break in a few mins I think the part of the sim where every train wants to either use a ground frame or run round on the main lines at Shap and Tebay is about to begin. 
Last edited: 29/08/2018 at 15:07 by lazzer Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 07/09/2018 at 17:42 #111971 | |
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lazzer
634 posts |
Just spotted another thing with 6S73, although this is the one that enters at Carnforth at 23.42. It's booked to stop at Grayrigg between 00:02 and 00:17, presumably to allow the following 1S03 past. The only trouble is that Grayrigg DPL is 430 metres long, and 6S73 is 448 metres long. You can't use the the loop at Oxenholme because that's even shorter, so the only option is to run 6S73 to Tebay, and get it out of the way there, but not until it's held up 1S03 anyway. 6S73 will, of course, call in a wrong route if you signal it to continue through on the Down Main if you don't edit the TT to ignore Grayrigg. The 6S73 that is seeded at the start of the sim seeds in the loop at Grayrigg, so this problem doesn't become an issue when you first start out. Also, it is a convenient 348 metres long, compared to the "identical" one which enters 24 hours later! So the second 6S73 needs its length reduced. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 07/09/2018 at 18:22 #111973 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
To reduce the length of 6S73 isn't a big deal. Remember the majority of freight trains in this timetable have been created to represent the maximum length limit of each service according to the 1979-/1980 LMR freight train loads book. 448m = 70SLUs which is the length limit for Kingmoor Yard. 384m = 60SLUs, so if 6S73 was amended with a length of 60SLUs then that would fit. To be 100% accurate we'd really need an eye witness account of some BR publication which defined the actual length limit of each train that ran during this time & the chances of getting that is about the same as finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The majority of the freights between Newcastle - Carlisle - Newcastle are loaded to the maxc as if there were space available then wagons off diverted trains that would normally run via the ECML would be marshalled on the rear as the trains left Carlisle, although no loops to worry about on Carlisle going that way. Will amend the timetable for the next version update.
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 07/09/2018 at 19:09 #111977 | |
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postal
5264 posts
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58050 in post 111973 said:To reduce the length of 6S73 isn't a big deal. Remember the majority of freight trains in this timetable have been created to represent the maximum length limit of each service according to the 1979-/1980 LMR freight train loads book. 448m = 70SLUs which is the length limit for Kingmoor Yard. 384m = 60SLUs, so if 6S73 was amended with a length of 60SLUs then that would fit. To be 100% accurate we'd really need an eye witness account of some BR publication which defined the actual length limit of each train that ran during this time & the chances of getting that is about the same as finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The majority of the freights between Newcastle - Carlisle - Newcastle are loaded to the maxc as if there were space available then wagons off diverted trains that would normally run via the ECML would be marshalled on the rear as the trains left Carlisle, although no loops to worry about on Carlisle going that way. Will amend the timetable for the next version update.The seed version is 60SLU. I've amended the late evening entry to align. Updated TTs to Tom for re-issue when the sim is refreshed. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |