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| 1980s Timetables 31/08/2018 at 20:34 #111710 | |
ajax103
1120 posts |
With regards to the 1980s InterCity services and this includes Cross Country/Holidaymakers, were there much difference in the calling pattern between then and now? I'm interested in the calling patterns of IC services in the 1980s so I can compare them to today if anyone can help? Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 31/08/2018 at 20:53 #111711 | |
58050
2659 posts |
The simple answer to that is yes. Some stations that were open back then might not exist today or visa versa where new stations have oprmrf but weren't around in the 1980s. I'd also say that there were alot more variety in the number of holidaymaker trains that ran plus the Merrymaker services & those SAGA specials conveying OAPs to the seaside. Also the traction & rolling stock used would be more diverse.
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| 1980s Timetables 31/08/2018 at 21:24 #111719 | |
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ajax103
1120 posts |
What sort of calling patterns were there for the MerryMakers and HolidayMakers? I came across a station working book from 1989 for London Paddington which has a daily London Paddington to Edinburgh service but not as I can see a return. I also came across the workings for the Midland Mainline however it's the East Coast Mainline, Great Eastern Mainline and West Coast Mainline that I'm having trouble finding some calling pattern on their IC services. Not so much the timings just the places they called at. Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 31/08/2018 at 21:33 #111720 | |
Steamer
3985 posts |
ajax103 in post 111710 said:With regards to the 1980s InterCity services and this includes Cross Country/Holidaymakers, were there much difference in the calling pattern between then and now?I wasn't around in the 1980s, but from the excellent heritage TTs on here and other reading, I've picked up the following general points: Generally, the IC service was less frequent in the 80s compared to today, however there were more diverse routings and IC routes that were worked by one or two trains per day. Modern timetables see a regular 'clockface' pattern of services that operate over a less diverse range of routes, with 1tph generally being the minimum frequency. While some stations see a less regular service, these services are generally extensions of the basic routes- for instance, the East Coast services to Inverness and Aberdeen are extensions of the hourly xx:00 King's Cross- Edinburgh fast service. BR operated specific holidaymaker trains, along with other specials, which obicously don't run now (the charter train market excepted, of course), but this is balanced against the generally less frequent service that ran as standard. Calling patterns on the WCML were certainly different; in the 1979 Carlisle TT, Penrith and Oxenholme are badly served by WCML services, with an irregular service and gaps of up to several hours between trains- southbound from Penrith, for instance, has departures at 06:24, 07:33, 09:44, 09:57, 11:16, 12:22, then nothing until 15:58, 17:00, 18:15 and 20:11. Today, two trains per hour call at those stations all day, with 3tph operating between Preston and Scotland. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 31/08/2018 at 22:14 #111722 | |
belly buster
368 posts |
I haven't studied any timetables but I can say from travelling around in the 80s that there was a big difference between the summer and winter TTs. The summer TT had all the "holidaymakers" with plenty of additional services to Paignton, Tenby, Weston-super-Mare, Blackpool, Scarborough, Skegness etc. etc. and ran mid-May through to mid-September. Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 31/08/2018 at 22:54 #111724 | |
postal
5265 posts |
ajax103 in post 111719 said:I came across a station working book from 1989 for London Paddington which has a daily London Paddington to Edinburgh service but not as I can see a return.By the early 1990s there was a Glasgow - Paddington XC, Cl47 plus a rake of Mk 2s. I think there was a reverse working which may have been the Padd - Edinburgh re-routed and which left Padd in the morning. IIRC the Glasgow - Padd left Glasgow Central about tea-time. It was through Oxford about 22:30ish as I travelled it a few times to get back to London in that era. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 31/08/2018 at 22:55 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 01/09/2018 at 12:13 #111742 | |
TomOF
452 posts |
postal in post 111724 said:ajax103 in post 111719 said:I have a SWB for Paddington from Q2 1992 which has finally come in handy.I came across a station working book from 1989 for London Paddington which has a daily London Paddington to Edinburgh service but not as I can see a return.By the early 1990s there was a Glasgow - Paddington XC, Cl47 plus a rake of Mk 2s. I think there was a reverse working which may have been the Padd - Edinburgh re-routed and which left Padd in the morning. IIRC the Glasgow - Padd left Glasgow Central about tea-time. It was through Oxford about 22:30ish as I travelled it a few times to get back to London in that era. The service to which you refer was 06:00 1S52 Padd - Edinburgh nominally formed load 7. The ECS was off Old Oak arriving 05:45 which itself appears to have been formed off the 19:18 Manchester - Padd Service arriving 23:56 Sunday into Monday or 21:06 1V99 Birmingham - Padd Service arriving 23:33 MX Not sure if by that time it had been curtailed to no longer run from Edinburgh on the Southbound run or did a join further north with a new headcode going forwards..? Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 02/09/2018 at 15:52 #111788 | |
jc92
3690 posts |
Another example of change is that cross country route. Until virgin introduced voyagers, the service pattern was hourly rather 2 per hour on the core route and some services were loco hauled York to Swansea which is no longer existent. Virgin effectively halved the train size but increased frequency. There were also cross country services from Liverpool lime Street heading north to Edinburgh and also to Poole and Bristol which were cut by virgin as well. A good example of calling point change is Manchester. Post 1989 all expresses used piccadilly rather than Victoria requiring a new route from Stalybridge to Manchester. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 02/09/2018 at 16:00 #111789 | |
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ajax103
1120 posts |
With all these changes, when did the last Holidaymaker/Merrymaker service run? I know they were in the 1991 York timetable so was that the last time they existed? Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 02/09/2018 at 16:10 #111790 | |
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jc92
3690 posts |
ajax103 in post 111789 said:With all these changes, when did the last Holidaymaker/Merrymaker service run?Someone else might be able to provide more accurate info but my guess would be on privatisation. Sagas, merry maker's etc were run as a public service rather than an exercise in making money. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 02/09/2018 at 16:43 #111791 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Merrymaker excursion ran from the 1970s(or even before that time, but I started trainspotting in 1970 so not too sure about the 1960s) through to the late 1980s. I don't think they ran in the 1990s under the 'Merrymaker' banner which was a BR thing. When sectoristaion was in there certainly wasn't as many as in the 1980s. But I suspect the like of Pathfinder Railtours & other companies likethat took off in the 1990s & they pretty much did the same thingalthough more for the rail enthusiasts which wanted to tavel over freight line & be hauled by freight locos. SAGA used to run excursion trains to the south coast from the North East for OAPs, but they too didn't last into privatisation unless someone knows differnt as I no longer got involved in the passenger side of the railway from April 1994 as I went to Stratford ROC as Duty SHift Manager for Trainload Freight South East/ Mainline Freight. Post privatisation the railtours were very common predominantly on Saturdays where the FOCs had a strict policy on hiring speific locos for railtours. If for example Pathfinder Railtours wanted a specific loco by number then they werte charged a mandatory fee of £,000 per requested loco by number & that was just for the engine ever mind about the charges for the coaching stock used. So as you see things got alot more expensive post privatisation. Ajax103 you asked about the mid to late 1990s, yes railtours ran again predominantly on Saturdays with the occasional one starting on a Friday evening like one I travelled on run by the Cl.31 loco group who took a pair of Cl.31/1 locos to Fort William & the train started at Stafford on the Friday evening with 37025 from Stafford to Carlisle. Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 03/09/2018 at 13:13 #111824 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
We still had three overnight 'holidaymaker' trains from the north-east via Derby to the West Country running Fridays Only through Derby in the summer months into the upper mid-90's, one was a Leeds - Newquay but I can't remember the origins/destinations of the other two. They all called at Derby between midnight and 0200, arriving at destination approximately 0500 - 0700ish. They were booked 'pick up only' at Derby, so it was quite odd when I boarded one to get home after seeing Supertramp at Sheffield Arena in 1997 to see the platform departure screen showing first stop Birmingham New St. I can't recall in which year they last ran.
Last edited: 03/09/2018 at 13:14 by Phil-jmw Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 03/09/2018 at 13:56 #111826 | |
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bill_gensheet
1414 posts |
Could be worth the OP picking up a summer GBTT from eBay, say a 1986. I have got about every 10 years now (1951, 1964, 1973, 1984) and then several more recent ones. Any specific queries just ask Bill Last edited: 03/09/2018 at 13:56 by bill_gensheet Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 03/09/2018 at 14:33 #111828 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Phil-jmw in post 111824 said:We still had three overnight 'holidaymaker' trains from the north-east via Derby to the West Country running Fridays Only through Derby in the summer months into the upper mid-90's, one was a Leeds - Newquay but I can't remember the origins/destinations of the other two. They all called at Derby between midnight and 0200, arriving at destination approximately 0500 - 0700ish. They were booked 'pick up only' at Derby, so it was quite odd when I boarded one to get home after seeing Supertramp at Sheffield Arena in 1997 to see the platform departure screen showing first stop Birmingham New St. I can't recall in which year they last ran.Looking in my Sheffield summer 1993 station working books the trains you are referring to are:- 1V26 2330 FO Leeds via Doncaster - Newquay formed by NL358 HST set Newquay arr. 07.22 1V31 2000 FO Edinburgh Waverley - Penzance formed by EC380 HST set. Penzance arr. 09.59 There used to be a couple of holidaymaker trains that departed Nottingham on a Friday evening back in the 1980s. According to my Nott'm 1985-1986 Arr & Dep. book these were all loco hauled then:- 1V39 2100 FO Nottingham - Newquay which ran via Derby(RR). Newquay arr. 05.48 1O28 2100 FO Bradford - Weymouth Nott'm arr. 23.50 dep. 23.50 1O29 2221 FO Leeds - Portsmouth Harbour. Nott'm arr. 00.34 dep. 00.41 Portsmouth Harbour arr. 06.02. Loading on this train shows 8 coaches. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Phil-jmw |
| 1980s Timetables 03/09/2018 at 17:00 #111831 | |
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ajax103
1120 posts |
bill_gensheet in post 111826 said:Could be worth the OP picking up a summer GBTT from eBay, say a 1986.I've actually brought a Summer 1990 ie May to September 1990 GBTT from eBay which was reasonably priced at around £8 including P & P - They did have one from the 70s but at £20 was too pricey for me :( The others were mostly October to May 1980s GBTT's. Log in to reply |
| 1980s Timetables 05/09/2018 at 00:22 #111866 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
58050 in post 111828 said:Phil-jmw in post 111824 said:Thanks for straightening out my guesswork timings Pascal, my memory has faded a bit since then. I had a feeling one started from Edinburgh but wasn't sure so didn't commit to it but I do remember they were both formed of HST's though. I don't have any recollection of the 1V39 run round you mentioned, maybe that had ceased to run by the early 90's which is the time frame I'm trying to recall as that's when I was in Derby TOPS Office, which relocated from the station to the PSB in 1992.We still had three overnight 'holidaymaker' trains from the north-east via Derby to the West Country running Fridays Only through Derby in the summer months into the upper mid-90's, one was a Leeds - Newquay but I can't remember the origins/destinations of the other two. They all called at Derby between midnight and 0200, arriving at destination approximately 0500 - 0700ish. They were booked 'pick up only' at Derby, so it was quite odd when I boarded one to get home after seeing Supertramp at Sheffield Arena in 1997 to see the platform departure screen showing first stop Birmingham New St. I can't recall in which year they last ran.Looking in my Sheffield summer 1993 station working books the trains you are referring to are:- Log in to reply |