Level Crossing Penalties

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Level Crossing Penalties 18/02/2019 at 12:12 #115834
y10g9
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895 posts 		The level crossings at Cononley and Kildwick seem to have very harsh timings for excessive delay penalty. Once the barriers are down, 4 mins (well actually looking at the message window, its only 3m59s) for the trains to pass is pretty hard, esp as most trains going over Cononley are travelling at a slow speed as they are either breaking to enter the station (in the up direction) or in the down direction had to slow down, stop at the station, complete station duties and then move off from the station all with in the 4 minutes before you get slapped with a penalty. This becomes annoying when you have services passing each other between the 2 crossings and you essentially end up stopping both trains in the section to let the crossings raise, and immediately lower them again (often pressing the raise button and while they are raising clicking the lower button) which is likely to infuriate the road traffic more than the crossing having stayed down for an extra minute to allow both trains to cross. I also have a hard time getting some of the heavy Class 6 freights across the crossing without receiving a penalty, esp when they are setting off from a restrictive signal aspect as you can't give them a clear run over both crossings, since by the time they've arrived at the second crossing, you've already been slapped with a penalty for excessive delay.

Unlike on other sims, the penalty is applied at 4 minutes regardless of whether there was a train or not.
I understand that because of the frequency of trains travelling over the crossings, you added the short timings to prevent people leaving the crossing down for extended periods of time, however, I find that the penalty is applied too quickly. The only way to avoid being given a penalty, is to check every train in between the crossings (which can often change a train classed as on time to running 2 mins late), which with down services is still tight on the 4 mins to get across the crossing, as the signal protecting the crossing is before the station.
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Level Crossing Penalties 18/02/2019 at 16:19 #115840
jc92
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3701 posts 		When are you lowering the crossings? I don't lower the crossing at Kildwick for an up train for instance until its just entering the station at Cononley. There shouldn't be any penalty to the train, or certainly none I've noticed.

Agreed though 4 mins seems harsh, especially if two trains pass each other at just the wrong moment.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Level Crossing Penalties 18/02/2019 at 18:29 #115849
y10g9
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895 posts 		Depending on whether its a stopper or not
Up trains, generally try and lower Cononley once the train has cleared the crossover pointwork at Skipton, in the hope that it will get a green at Signal 4028. For nonstoppers will try and lower Kildwick as the overlap of 4026 is occupied (Overlap TC on Cononley), Stoppers once they've cleared Cononley crossing.

Down trains, ideally I want to give them a green aspect through Sig 4019 so will hit lower for Kildwick while train is at Steeton, Cononley will hit lower as train is passing over Kildwick now meaning they pretty much always get a single yellow at 4023, as trying to give a stopper green at 4023, I find is pretty much a penalty at Cononley.

My main thing I've been finding in the TT I'm playing, is the Clockface TT seems to have services passing at Cononley Station, the Up train arrives first, and before its clear of the crossing, you signal a down train across, by the time it has performed its station duties, that when you get the penalty

I know other sims have more time before a penalty is applied, and have the 2 stage system of (1) barriers down too long without a train, (2) barriers down too long, with option 2 having a longer time before penalty (allowing for 2 trains to cross before the barriers are raised).
Last edited: 18/02/2019 at 18:41 by y10g9
Reason: None given
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Level Crossing Penalties 18/02/2019 at 18:47 #115850
TUT
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545 posts 		It's definitely on the stricter side

I racked up about 200-250 points in penalties last time I played I reckon.

It's virtually impossible to avoid getting any penalty for the crossings and to keep trains running on time
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Level Crossing Penalties 18/02/2019 at 18:51 #115851
y10g9
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895 posts 		TUT in post 115850 said:
It's definitely on the stricter side

I racked up about 200-250 points in penalties last time I played I reckon.

It's virtually impossible to avoid getting any penalty for the crossings and to keep trains running on time
Also doesn't help when a down service at Cononley gets delayed. 15 minute delay due to police attendance, you can bet yourself on getting penalised at least 4 time
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Level Crossing Penalties 18/02/2019 at 19:16 #115852
lazzer
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636 posts 		Based on the replies in this thread I'd be tempted to lower the barriers, keep them down for 24 hours, and just ignore the penalties and road users
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Level Crossing Penalties 18/02/2019 at 19:49 #115853
TUT
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545 posts 		y10g9 in post 115851 said:
TUT in post 115850 said:
It's definitely on the stricter side

I racked up about 200-250 points in penalties last time I played I reckon.

It's virtually impossible to avoid getting any penalty for the crossings and to keep trains running on time
Also doesn't help when a down service at Cononley gets delayed. 15 minute delay due to police attendance, you can bet yourself on getting penalised at least 4 time
Put the signal back and raise the barriers manually?
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Level Crossing Penalties 18/02/2019 at 20:39 #115854
y10g9
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895 posts 		TUT in post 115853 said:
y10g9 in post 115851 said:
TUT in post 115850 said:
It's definitely on the stricter side

I racked up about 200-250 points in penalties last time I played I reckon.

It's virtually impossible to avoid getting any penalty for the crossings and to keep trains running on time
Also doesn't help when a down service at Cononley gets delayed. 15 minute delay due to police attendance, you can bet yourself on getting penalised at least 4 time
Put the signal back and raise the barriers manually?
Except the station is between the crossing and the signal protecting it
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Level Crossing Penalties 18/02/2019 at 21:00 #115855
jc92
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3701 posts 		y10g9 in post 115854 said:
TUT in post 115853 said:
y10g9 in post 115851 said:
TUT in post 115850 said:
It's definitely on the stricter side

I racked up about 200-250 points in penalties last time I played I reckon.

It's virtually impossible to avoid getting any penalty for the crossings and to keep trains running on time
Also doesn't help when a down service at Cononley gets delayed. 15 minute delay due to police attendance, you can bet yourself on getting penalised at least 4 time
Put the signal back and raise the barriers manually?
Except the station is between the crossing and the signal protecting it
I beleive this happened in real life at Kiveton Park once. An up train arrived and had an issue with a passenger taken ill so sat there for about 10 mins locking the crossing.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Level Crossing Penalties 18/02/2019 at 21:49 #115856
TUT
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545 posts 		y10g9 in post 115854 said:
TUT in post 115853 said:
y10g9 in post 115851 said:
TUT in post 115850 said:
It's definitely on the stricter side

I racked up about 200-250 points in penalties last time I played I reckon.

It's virtually impossible to avoid getting any penalty for the crossings and to keep trains running on time
Also doesn't help when a down service at Cononley gets delayed. 15 minute delay due to police attendance, you can bet yourself on getting penalised at least 4 time
Put the signal back and raise the barriers manually?
Except the station is between the crossing and the signal protecting it
Good point that :P

Sorry I forgot, should've checked.

I wondered why you hadn't thought to do that ......
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Level Crossing Penalties 20/02/2019 at 20:04 #115885
Grid56
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5 posts 		As a regular around the real Kildwick crossing trust me barriers being down up to 10 minutes continuously or raising and then immediately having the yellow light up again is entirely prototypical. So you could just look at it that your receiving the same penalties that the real signaller should get !!! One of the reasons Cross Hills station has not been re-instated. A bridge keeps getting proposed.
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Level Crossing Penalties 21/02/2019 at 09:34 #115892
kbarber
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1764 posts 		Grid56 in post 115885 said:
As a regular around the real Kildwick crossing trust me barriers being down up to 10 minutes continuously or raising and then immediately having the yellow light up again is entirely prototypical. So you could just look at it that your receiving the same penalties that the real signaller should get !!! One of the reasons Cross Hills station has not been re-instated. A bridge keeps getting proposed.
Should get?????!!!

The legal position is that rail has priority over road at level crossings, even those crossings which are normally open to road traffic. About the only place, in modern life, that the Great God Motor Car (as C Hamilton Ellis called it) gets put in its proper place. And if road traffic has increased to the extent that unacceptable delays are being suffered, it strikes me the road authorities (not the railway) should be the ones to pay for the bridge.
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