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Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 01/05/2019 at 21:33 #118005 | |
lazzer
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While playing Exeter recently I suddenly realised that the signals to the east of Newton Abbot aren't behaving as I would expect them to when a route is set from E84 to E386 (routing a Down train into platform 3). In real life (and I see this from the front of a train when it happens to me) signals DM211 and DM212 flash double and single yellow respectively when the road is set from E84 to E386. E84 is single yellow with junction indicator 4, and E386 is red (stepping up to a proceed aspect on approach). In the sim this doesn't happen. With a route set from E84 -> E386 -> E388 -> E90, E84 signal shows steady double yellow, E386 is steady single yellow, and E388 is red, implying approach control is in operation at E388. Both DM211 and DM212 show green aspects. In my experience, I have never come round the left-hand corner towards E84 (it isn't visible to drivers as they pass DM212) and found it to be STEADY double yellow with junction indicator 4 giving me the road across to the Up Main line. I believe the flashing yellows at DM211 and DM212 were introduced for this move due to the reduction in speed required over the crossover (60mph to 40mph) being too great to achieve in the limited space between E84 and the crossover. Is there any reason why the sim does this? Is this a deliberate oversight? Edit - I'm playing the latest loader version of Exeter released earlier today to address the "very early entry" problem. Last edited: 01/05/2019 at 21:34 by lazzer Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 02/05/2019 at 02:58 #118008 | |
JamesN
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It’s in the original commissioning notice of 1987 that DM211 and DM212 flash when routed E84 - E386; and I concur they flash today aswell. Mantis 24855 Last edited: 02/05/2019 at 03:10 by JamesN Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: lazzer |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 02/05/2019 at 07:09 #118009 | |
Peter Bennet
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"Deliberate oversight" is an interesting concept! Looking at the data it appears they were coded to flash but not linked to any route. Thanks Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 02/05/2019 at 09:27 #118015 | |
lazzer
![]() 611 posts |
Peter Bennet in post 118009 said:"Deliberate oversight" is an interesting concept! Looking at the data it appears they were coded to flash but not linked to any route.By "deliberate oversight" I meant that the coders knew they were supposed to flash, but for some reason decided not to implement it. ![]() Log in to reply |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 02/05/2019 at 16:25 #118022 | |
GeoffM
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lazzer in post 118015 said:Peter Bennet in post 118009 said:By the sound of what Peter said, the signals were set up to flash, but the route was set as standard approach control instead of FY."Deliberate oversight" is an interesting concept! Looking at the data it appears they were coded to flash but not linked to any route.By "deliberate oversight" I meant that the coders knew they were supposed to flash, but for some reason decided not to implement it. :) SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 02/05/2019 at 16:50 #118023 | |
clive
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lazzer in post 118005 said:The normal rules for flashing aspects are: * Hold the signal beyond the junction at red. * Once the driver has had a chance to see the junction indicator lit, release the signal beyond the junction but limit the junction signal to double yellow. * Once the train has passed the AWS magnet, release the junction signal to green (assuming the signals ahead allow that). Log in to reply |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 02/05/2019 at 19:42 #118027 | |
Late Turn
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clive in post 118023 said:lazzer in post 118005 said:The normal rules for flashing aspects are: I don’t know how widespread that arrangement is, but the yellow normally steps straight up to a green in every example that I regularly encounter (some dating from the 70s, others very recent), well before reaching the magnet, obviously subject to signals in advance. It makes sense too - otherwise receiving a warning at the magnet would become routine for the diverging route, meaning that there’d be more chance of overlooking the junction signal only stepping up to YY or remaining at Y. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: TUT |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 02/05/2019 at 20:05 #118029 | |
GeoffM
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Late Turn in post 118027 said:clive in post 118023 said:Agreed - SSI8003-69B states that the junction signal can step up when the driver can see the junction indicator, which I believe is 300yds as a general rule of thumb (AWS magnets are mostly fixed at 200yds away). But in practice I think there is often not a separate track section to determine reaching 300yds (or whatever) so simply passing the FY is enough for the junction signal to step up.lazzer in post 118005 said:The normal rules for flashing aspects are: Additionally, I've never seen controls on the signal after the junction. Again, SSI8003-69B states that it can show any aspect but "often required to be off or ready to clear" for the junction signal to show Y and the preceding signals FY (and FYY if appropriate). Note that some rules have changed over the years for flashing yellow sequences though. In the 1970s they were allowed for multiple routes from the same signal, then they decided only one route could use them, but now I believe it's been relaxed again to allow 2 routes, or possibly more. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Late Turn |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 02/05/2019 at 22:27 #118032 | |
lazzer
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GeoffM in post 118029 said:Note that some rules have changed over the years for flashing yellow sequences though. In the 1970s they were allowed for multiple routes from the same signal, then they decided only one route could use them, but now I believe it's been relaxed again to allow 2 routes, or possibly more.The signalling in the Bathampton Junction area has recently been upgraded (I had the brief about it a couple of weeks ago), and on the Up you get flashing yellows for both the route to Bradford-on-Avon and for crossing over to reversible working on the main line towards Box Tunnel - both 40mph crossovers. I assume the fact that both routes use the same speed is why you get flashers for both. Last edited: 03/05/2019 at 12:40 by lazzer Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 02/05/2019 at 23:58 #118034 | |
Hap
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clive in post 118023 said:lazzer in post 118005 said:Uddingston Junction is slightly different (I think it's because it goes from 4 aspect to 3 aspect signalling on the Up Holytown). On approach to UDD (Providing that GMN186 (M186 pre-WSSC) is showing a proceed aspect, then GMN182 (M182) will show a single Y with route indicator with it stepping up to G when the train activates TC276 which, by observation every day, is when the train passes over the AWS magnet just before the platform ramp. Completely missing out YY.The normal rules for flashing aspects are: Polmont junction is different also. The signal after the junction (EPJ495) steps up to Y when the train has passed the FY (EPJ517). Craig How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue Log in to reply |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 03/05/2019 at 13:36 #118046 | |
Splodge
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Hap in post 118034 said:Uddingston Junction is slightly different (I think it's because it goes from 4 aspect to 3 aspect signalling on the Up Holytown). On approach to UDD (Providing that GMN186 (M186 pre-WSSC) is showing a proceed aspect, then GMN182 (M182) will show a single Y with route indicator with it stepping up to G when the train activates TC276 which, by observation every day, is when the train passes over the AWS magnet just before the platform ramp. Completely missing out YY.Same at Ashburys junction for trains running via Reddish There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway. Log in to reply |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 03/05/2019 at 17:15 #118058 | |
Late Turn
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Splodge in post 118046 said:Hap in post 118034 said:Uddingston Junction is slightly different (I think it's because it goes from 4 aspect to 3 aspect signalling on the Up Holytown). On approach to UDD (Providing that GMN186 (M186 pre-WSSC) is showing a proceed aspect, then GMN182 (M182) will show a single Y with route indicator with it stepping up to G when the train activates TC276 which, by observation every day, is when the train passes over the AWS magnet just before the platform ramp. Completely missing out YY.Same at Ashburys junction for trains running via Reddish It’s approach released from red, isn’t it? I can’t remember whether it clears straight to green when it does release though! Log in to reply |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 03/05/2019 at 20:09 #118066 | |
Splodge
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I think it does both thinking about it - normally my first sight of it is with Y and number 4 indicator, it then goes green around the AWS magnet. However there is a chance to get a brief view from further away and the signal does always seem to be on at that point, but it isn't easy to tell as it's a glimpse through foliage/OHLE.
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway. Log in to reply |
Flashing Yellows at Newton Abbot 04/05/2019 at 08:01 #118074 | |
Late Turn
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Splodge in post 118066 said:I think it does both thinking about it - normally my first sight of it is with Y and number 4 indicator, it then goes green around the AWS magnet. However there is a chance to get a brief view from further away and the signal does always seem to be on at that point, but it isn't easy to tell as it's a glimpse through foliage/OHLE. You certainly get brought down to it as though it’s a red (steady YY and then Y at the signals in rear), and I’m sure that I’ve seen it as such. It does clear well before the magnet but I can’t remember what happens next - I’ll make a note of it, next time I go for a rare outing that way! Log in to reply |