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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Timetables > Marylebone IECC > Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT

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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT 06/06/2020 at 16:57 #127381
Terry
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180 posts 		A most interesting timetable. However, the 1Y-- headcoded trains from Marylebone to Oxford don't appear to be stopping at Islip or Oxford Parkway stations (maybe not stopping at Bicester Village, I haven't checked). Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to why this should be so! I have tried both ARS and non-ARS routing but the effect is the same. I'm also adding Oxford to the timetable to get trains to disappear from simulation as Oxford North Jn. timing point does not remove trains from the simulation.

Please see example of this operation below.

Terry.
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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT 06/06/2020 at 17:26 #127382
bill_gensheet
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1413 posts 		It looks like the train 'thinks' it has not yet got to Haddenham & Thame.
Once this happens, it does not stop.

So something goes wrong around there.
Might be era related ?
I got a scenario warning for era 2016 but not 2015.
What does your options box show ?
That would help someone more familiar with the MYB sim - maybe repost this query there

Just to be sure, this is the Sunday timetable in 'downloads' titled 2017 with a filename 'Jan 2016' and 'Jan 2015' in the descriptive text ?
I think the actual days for this diversion were 27 and 28 December 2015.

regards
Bill
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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT 07/06/2020 at 10:02 #127386
Terry
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180 posts 		Bill, thanks for your help. To ensure I'm singing from the same hymn-sheet, I have attached three images to show the timetable I'm using and the year selected (2015) which I believe is the correct year for this timetable.

You suggest I should re-post this query but under which title should I do this?

Thanks,

Terry.
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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT 07/06/2020 at 12:57 #127390
Stephen Fulcher
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2080 posts 		The timetable isn't a supported official one, and has a couple of fundamental issues that can be seen on startup.

The website shows it as 2017 on the download page, the Timetable name when you open it says 2016 and the timetable description says 2015! There are also no seeds on it when I would expect Aylesbury Sidings to have trains in on a Sunday morning.

I have just 1Y19 through and it works fine at Haddenham so I am not sure what you have done to get it to the situation it is in. That being said, none of the 1Y trains will leave the sim as they need Oxford adding to the end of their schedules.

Bill, I think this TT is largely fictional, there was never an hourly Chiltern service to Kidderminster.
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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT 07/06/2020 at 14:06 #127394
bill_gensheet
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1413 posts 		I have stripped out a train pair 1Y01 / 1Y03, and they run OK for me (excepting the Oxford exit problem Stephen notes).
I now think you need to see if you had to do anything odd around Princes Risborough that might be causing the trains to lose the plot.

Attached save of the test timed 0826 with 1Y03 stopped at Princes Risborough
Does the save run OK for you ?
From the save you can save the test timetable and run it through at 22x speed.
Does the timetable work OK for you ?




Stephen Fulcher in post 127390 said:

Bill, I think this TT is largely fictional, there was never an hourly Chiltern service to Kidderminster.
Agreed, especially on a Sunday.... and Chiltern serving the locals at Sudbury Hill at all.

My comment referred solely to the 'Wales via Islip' diversion, but illustrates the 'dates' issue.
At least now timetables can force era. I wonder if the timetable was written before 'seed to signal' was widely known, as several trains are described as 'Seed from Depot' to the sidings.

Bill
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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT 07/06/2020 at 15:47 #127398
Terry
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180 posts 		Attached are two attempts to add 'oxford' to timetable, one done at Princes Risborough and the other at Oxford Parkway. Both were validated ok with the instruction to make 1Y19 non-ARS. However, as you will see, Haddenham and Thame, Gavray Jn, and Islip have moved from their original position in the timetable to entries below 'Oxford'! I returned 1Y19 to its original timetable at Princes Risborough and train performed properly until it reached Oxford Parkway where I tried to add 'Oxford' to the timetable with the strange result which can be seen in image 2. Surely, something strange is happening here or am I making a huge mistake I'm unaware of.

Terry.
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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT 07/06/2020 at 16:21 #127399
JamesN
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1608 posts 		You haven’t put a time in, it’ll do all kinds of odd things if you don’t put a time in a schedule that otherwise has times
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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT 07/06/2020 at 16:33 #127400
Terry
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180 posts 		I will try this James, thank you.

Terry
Terry
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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT 08/06/2020 at 08:14 #127408
Terry
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180 posts 		Thanks to all, problem resolved. Who would have thought that the absence of a specific time could cause so much trouble; thank you James for pointing this out.

Terry.
Terry
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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT 08/06/2020 at 12:17 #127413
bill_gensheet
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1413 posts 		The verify uses time as the first way to sort the locations into order, and then sees if the ordering works.
No entry is sorted as 00:00:00 so is put in as either next (if editing a live timetable using F2) or top (if editing the source timetables using F4).

Bill
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Sunday Diversions 2015 WTT 08/06/2020 at 12:29 #127414
headshot119
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4869 posts 		bill_gensheet in post 127413 said:
The verify uses time as the first way to sort the locations into order, and then sees if the ordering works.
No entry is sorted as 00:00:00 so is put in as either next (if editing a live timetable using F2) or top (if editing the source timetables using F4).

Bill
No it doesn't at all, using time to order locations is a long way down the validation process.

Clive broadly outlines the process in this post / thread https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/49177?postId=112643

clive in post 112643 said:
Okay, let me attempt to explain. A lot of this is historical - the code was designed a long time ago and much has changed since.

There are two kinds of locations in simulations: "key" and "non-key". Very simply, a non-key location is one that trains can stop at or pass but nothing else, while key locations can have actions and other things.

In the simulation data are lists of "paths" which are pairs of key locations that can come after one another; these may also carry information about path, line, and platform numbers. (They also do other things in ARS sims.) So when validation says that there is no path between two locations, that's because that pair aren't in the list. To do this - and I don't know why it was written this way - the core code strips out all the non-key locations before doing the validation. It then puts them back in afterwards and - and this is what's causing the issue - puts them in in time order. I have no idea why it was done like that, even though I've got a vague feeling that I wrote or rewrote some of the code.

Yes, this could be fixed. No, it's not going to be at all simple. I've raised Mantis 21783 so it doesn't get lost.

Peter mentions location numbers. These aren't required to be in the down direction and in fact they aren't checked at all (or weren't last time I looked at the code). They're only there for ordering the spreadsheets that one user facility produces. Before they could be used we'd have to update *every* sim to use them.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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