Another tale from the black hole...

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Another tale from the black hole... 10/07/2020 at 22:50 #129450
VInce
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579 posts 		Another tale from the black hole....

In this example, which may well be associated with the issue here

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/50998

not only do trains enter out of order on the up Brighton slow, but the description SOMETIMES in the Thornton Heath berth gets overwritten.

You may need to run this save several times to find the over writing, - but it does, believe me.

The sequence of events is, when the description does not get over-written. :

7V67 enters 2024

2J60 enters (out of order, should be behind 2B27) at 20:27:33

2B27 enters at 20:32:01.

The sequence of events is, when the description does get over-written.

7V67 enters 2024

2J60 enters (out of order, should be behind 2B27) at 20:27:33

2B27 enters at 20:28:50 and over-writes 2J60 in the Thornton Heath Platform 2 berth

Vince (trying to be patient.....)
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Another tale from the black hole... 10/07/2020 at 22:54 #129451
GeoffM
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6380 posts 		I reworked this area just yesterday so I believe this to be fixed.
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Another tale from the black hole... 10/07/2020 at 23:01 #129452
VInce
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579 posts 		Thanks Geoff.

The sim was updated this morning, but I'm running from a save on the previous version of the sim.

Is that the cause of what I'm seeing?

Vince
I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
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Another tale from the black hole... 10/07/2020 at 23:12 #129455
bill_gensheet
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1431 posts 		It can also happen in normal sim running. It happens if you have two trains running hard together and the rear train TD steps ahead and overwrites the front train TD before the front train TD can step on ahead itself.

Most common for me on Motherwell around Mossend yard as the second train can be released from a PL signal making the conditions easier to create. On main aspects with overlaps it is not possible to create the condition.
In your case it is probably the 'merging black hole' of the Brighton and Sutton lines.

Most of the time this could be a legitimate joining action so not easy to fix robustly.
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Another tale from the black hole... 10/07/2020 at 23:18 #129456
GeoffM
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6380 posts 		VInce in post 129452 said:
The sim was updated this morning, but I'm running from a save on the previous version of the sim.

Is that the cause of what I'm seeing?
Ah, well in that case I'll look again.

bill_gensheet in post 129455 said:
It can also happen in normal sim running. It happens if you have two trains running hard together and the rear train TD steps ahead and overwrites the front train TD before the front train TD can step on ahead itself.

Most common for me on Motherwell around Mossend yard as the second train can be released from a PL signal making the conditions easier to create. On main aspects with overlaps it is not possible to create the condition.
In your case it is probably the 'merging black hole' of the Brighton and Sutton lines.

Most of the time this could be a legitimate joining action so not easy to fix robustly.
That would be down to sim data and should not happen, which is why I'm going to check Victoria again.
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Another tale from the black hole... 11/07/2020 at 14:15 #129471
VInce
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579 posts 		Geoff,

I know you are looking at this again.

I have an example now of two 1R69s entering. There are two 1R69s in the timetable but one is FX the other FO and we are running a Thursday timetable. I suspect that one of them is 2B53 in disguise.

Vince
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Last edited: 11/07/2020 at 14:16 by VInce
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Another tale from the black hole... 11/07/2020 at 15:56 #129472
Soton_Speed
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Online 		VInce in post 129471 said:
I have an example now of two 1R69s entering. There are two 1R69s in the timetable but one is FX the other FO and we are running a Thursday timetable. I suspect that one of them is 2B53 in disguise.
Vince,

If I may interject, it may be easier to timetable 1R69 to enter on the Up Brighton Fast as Three Bridges can cross him over at Selhurst Junction and then Vic C can cross back at Balham. When I ran your save, it looked like 2B53 prevented 1R69 entering on time due to an onward route set 'off stage' for 2B53. This should also help if 1R69 enters after 2B53 for whatever reason.

HTH
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Another tale from the black hole... 11/07/2020 at 16:38 #129473
VInce
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579 posts 		Thank you for that - I'm just the timetable tester but I'm sure the timetbale author will be watching...

Regards

Vince
I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
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Another tale from the black hole... 11/07/2020 at 17:29 #129476
phil1044
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Online 		I am indeed Vince, thanks for all the input folks, and especially Geoff for looking at the SIM itself again. Its proved to be an interesting set of events with this one !
Hopefully all will get sorted and I'll get it all amended and release the new version once all is well.
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Another tale from the black hole... 11/07/2020 at 17:41 #129478
GeoffM
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6380 posts 		VInce in post 129471 said:
Geoff,

I know you are looking at this again.

I have an example now of two 1R69s entering. There are two 1R69s in the timetable but one is FX the other FO and we are running a Thursday timetable. I suspect that one of them is 2B53 in disguise.

Vince
It looks like there is nothing to prevent both 1R69s from entering. Timetable issue, not sim.
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Another tale from the black hole... 11/07/2020 at 20:34 #129482
VInce
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579 posts 		GeoffM in post 129478 said:
VInce in post 129471 said:
Geoff,

I know you are looking at this again.

I have an example now of two 1R69s entering. There are two 1R69s in the timetable but one is FX the other FO and we are running a Thursday timetable. I suspect that one of them is 2B53 in disguise.

Vince
It looks like there is nothing to prevent both 1R69s from entering. Timetable issue, not sim.
There's a Day of The Week decision, Geoff.

When I looked closer the trainlist correctly showed the first one to be 2B53, the second, out of order was 1R69.


VInce
I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
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Another tale from the black hole... 11/07/2020 at 20:50 #129484
GeoffM
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6380 posts 		VInce in post 129482 said:
It looks like there is nothing to prevent both 1R69s from entering. Timetable issue, not sim.
There's a Day of The Week decision, Geoff.[/quote]

Ah, somehow I missed that, despite looking.
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