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| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 24/07/2020 at 10:31 #129932 | |
phil1044
161 posts |
Hi All, I have just submitted for approval an updated version (v 1.1) of my Victoria central timetable which was originally released in June. This version corrects errors / ommissions found after the initial release. Can I just say a big thank you to Vince for giving it a thouough run through on my behalf and hopefully getting some sim errors looked at via the formum postings. Hopefully the mantis logged errors highlighted have been sorted now with the new version of Victoria central now released. Many thanks to Geoff and the other mods for the attention given to them too. Can I ask one of the mods to delete v1.0 of this timetable once this version is authorised plaese. The following notes should be read before running this complex timetable : Notes on the Timetable ================== Trains : 2302 Rules : 718 Decisions : 8 This timetable is based on January-March 2020, and should be run in 2014 mode. This is a Mon-Fri timeatble, with the day chosen randomly. Many trains (escpecially freight) do not run on a daily basis, which gives a different scenario each time the simulation is run. All platforming at Victoria is as per the WTT although a couple of amendments have had to made where there were clashes. Rules have been applied to stop sets returning earlier than is possible when the oubound train is late or in times of disruption. Rules as well as dwell and turnaround times are as per Network Rail's Rules Of The Route document. ARS Notes: ========= At the very start of the timetable, 2J01 gets priority over 9W17 at Tulse Hill. Make 2J01 non-ARS to stop this happening. A note has been added to 2J01's ttimetable. 2Bxx ARS gives priority to 2Bxx at Balham on Up slow lines over 2Kxx off up Streatham line. Need to be wary of booked times 2Fxx ARS gives priority to 2Fxx at Crystal Palace over 9Bxx departing from plat 5. Be wary 2Bxx ARS gives priority to 2Bxx at Steatham North Jn over 1Ixx booked first. 9Oxx ARS gives priority to 9Oxx at Streatham South Jn over 1Ixx booked first Class 5 trains often get priority over trains booked before it. Good idea to make ECS non-ARS ARS will not interpose where there is a decision/choice to be made of trains when reversing ARS will not interpose where a class 5 train reverses at Victoria. Re-interpose the train upon arrival at Victoria. A note has been added to timetables effected ECS Movements: ============= ECS trains often get priority over trains booked to run ahead of it. Its a good idea to make ECS services non-ARS and deal with them manually. ECS trains can often disrupt the timetable especially so when they run early, this is especially noticable at Streatham Hill when the timetable begins, where there is an odd conflict in the timings of sets going back to the Shed or to the Down Sidings. Be wary of these trains as they can delay last passnger trains of the day while they make the shunting and reversing moves at Streatham Hill. Freight : ====== All freight trains times are from the official cif files, consists are checked with trains that have ran during the period of the timetable (January-March 2020). Checks have been made as to what days trains actually ran historically, and the decisions of DOTW (Day of the week) is based on this imformation. 99% of the Freight trains in this timetable only run on certain days, which will give adifferernt scenario each time the Sim is run. Warning : ======= Just an advisory note that there is a warning which pops up a couple of times when the timetable is being run.. I belive that it is an ARS fault but doesnt cause any issues with the timetable and can be ignored. The warning says "Internal error : PBK01 contains non-visible items in this era : B0563" This has been logged on Mantis. Thanks : ====== Thanks go to Geoff Mayo for creating SimSig in the first place, and for the developing of Victoria Central Thanks also to Chris Law for assistance with the cif filles, and to Vince Shirley for additional testing and advising me of some errors from the initial release. Please PM me if you find any faults or errors as with the radomness involved in the timetable its not possible to check every scenario thoroughly. I hope you enjoy this challenging timetable as much as I have compiling it. Timetable written by Phil Hodgson (Phil1044) Timetable Versions : ================== 21 June 2020 : v1.0 (Version 1) Initial Release 24 July 2020 : v1.1 Released with the following alterations/modifications as per WTT : 1C99, 5F66 additional trains MO. 1D00, 1D98, 1W02 changed to plat 1 at Balham as per WTT (incorrectly shown as P3 but didnt affect the train running) 1L76, 2F76, 2F91, 2H73, 2I98 altered to run MX. 1F96 and 1H54 dwell at Victoria amended to prevent late start after joining. 2B93/95/97 entry time altered by 2 mins earlier to avoid ARS delaying trains upon entry at Selhurst. 2F91, 3S92/H47011-5 train consists added. 5F75 set down only added to Streatham Hill time to allow train to depart early. 5I70 route altered to be via Crystal Palace. 5O01 route altered to be via P2 at KPA to allow 6O35 past. 5O81 retimed with added pathing time. Correted workings and plats for 5L02/1L02/1R02, 5B91/2B91/1Y02, 5V02/1R04/1B06, 5I02/2I02, 5I04/1I04 at VIC. 6Y01 timings for TThO corrected. Balham, Norwood Jn and Selhurst have had platform numbers added to many trains which were ommited (note : timetable still ran ok without them) Several freights have had passing times added (tick of the box) which were ommitted in error Cheers Folks Phil Log in to reply The following users said thank you: VInce, bri2808, Philo, TimTamToe |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 24/07/2020 at 16:38 #129946 | |
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bri2808
162 posts |
I did give up with Version 1.0 in the end because of the issues it was causing but look forward to trying the new version - Thanks for the update
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: phil1044 |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 25/07/2020 at 13:30 #129953 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts |
phil1044 in post 129932 said:Hi All, Tested on loader 5.3 with only the conflicting trains present and works fine. Note that for "9Oxx ARS gives priority to 9Oxx at Streatham South Jn over 1Ixx booked first" this is down to how quick you are with Eastfields LC. Clear the LC and 1Ixx goes first. ARS is not going to sort trains back into order, just minimise delays as presenting at each conflict. Have you got a save from around 12:00 with all trains present to look at ? Bill Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 25/07/2020 at 20:15 #129963 | |
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phil1044
161 posts |
Hi Bill, thanks for that info. I don't have a save on file unfortunately. I deleted the last run thro I did once I finalised the updates. Vince may possibly have one after his last run through tho. Log in to reply |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 26/07/2020 at 09:57 #129971 | |
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phil1044
161 posts |
Bill, I have found a save on my laptop but its from 8th May, so will be version 1 if its any use to you ? Ive attached it anyway, thanks for your input, its appreciated. Phil Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 26/07/2020 at 20:53 #129987 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts |
Thanks Phil, Firstly the save had quite a few trains not running - so has been repaired for the saves below. Rerun, giving attention to the LC and keeping to time gave an OK run, but there is certainly something odd going on at Streatham South: "9Oxx ARS gives priority to 9Oxx at Streatham South Jn over 1Ixx booked first" At 1138 1I23 set route with 9O32 on time - but only as there is no route conflict with 9O32 By cancelling the ARS area then resetting ARS once both trains are closer, 9O32 goes first if on greens. Seemingly random which goes first if ARS enabled after 9O32's Tooting call at 11:43H If waiting until both trains have stopped at red, 1I23 does go first. "2Bxx ARS gives priority to 2Bxx at Balham on Up slow lines over 2Kxx off up Streatham line." 11:42 2K25/2B48 With both trains on time this is a correct choice by some margin. "2Fxx ARS gives priority to 2Fxx at Crystal Palace over 9Bxx departing from plat 5." At 1143 (9B24 dep 11:47 / 2F26 arr 11:51) ARS holds back 2F26 at VC729, giving overlap priority to 9B26. "2Bxx ARS gives priority to 2Bxx at Streatham North Jn over 1Ixx booked first." At 11:44 1I23 vs 2B48 1I23 went first, 2B48 route was held. May depend on 1I23 being on time (ie 9O32 problem) 11:30 save attached to show all the notes in 15 minutes run. If kept to time it works. 11:38 save to expose the ARS issue at Streatham South, set up by a slight delay to 1I23. Despite 1I23 wanting the route 9O32 grabs it. regards Bill Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 27/07/2020 at 11:02 #129991 | |
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phil1044
161 posts |
Thanks for that info Bill. Its certainly a few thinks to keep the signalman on their toes, as if there isn't ewnough going on ! As has been said before in postings, ARS is there to help but not to take over. Phil Log in to reply |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 27/07/2020 at 16:42 #129998 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts 
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bill_gensheet in post 129987 said:Not random. All mathematics. It's probably very close to a threshold where the result changes the decision. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: phil1044 |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 28/07/2020 at 05:24 #130049 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts
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bill_gensheet in post 129987 said:"9Oxx ARS gives priority to 9Oxx at Streatham South Jn over 1Ixx booked first"Thanks - I think I've found it. There's a check to see if one of the trains is already on the common stretch in a simple forward working (eg VC788) and that sees whether the berth track circuit is on the other train's route. Except it was checking the first track in the route, not the berth track. It then gave priority to the one "on" the route, and since the other couldn't go (or so it thought), there was no need to bother with any further calculations. Each of the three examples above have this scenario. I've done a quick fix which seems to cure it, but I want to test more first. It'd be interesting to see if some of odd regulation decisions on Edinburgh fall into this category. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: phil1044 |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 03/09/2020 at 17:14 #131270 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
Hi Phil, Finally getting a small window of time to run this now! Running on a Monday and 5N62 / L08540 00+36 Vic-Stewarts Lane has identical tt to 5N64 00+41 Vic-Stewarts Lane both due to depart Vic at 00+41 Enjoying this so far...although amazing how many rookie errors I'm making on the WLL! Cheers Gareth Log in to reply |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 04/09/2020 at 14:11 #131285 | |
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phil1044
161 posts |
Hi Gareth, Ok mate I'll check the workings tonight as I'm out on the last 91 North of York at the moment. I'm pleased you're enjoying the TT, are you running easy mode or are you trying for some disruption ! Log in to reply |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 04/09/2020 at 15:16 #131286 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
phil1044 in post 131285 said:Hi Gareth,no worries, looks like 5N62 just needs all times 5min earlier pfft easy mode...delays and problems of course, got to keep the noggin stimulated 
Log in to reply |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 04/09/2020 at 16:13 #131290 | |
postal
5265 posts
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phil1044 in post 131285 said:Hi Gareth,Full circle. I was on the first one. Followed a set swap at the Cross before scheduled running started. The IC225 sets hadn't been cleared North of Newcastle at that stage but the local operators sent it forward ECS to Heaton anyway! “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 04/09/2020 at 19:47 #131304 | |
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phil1044
161 posts |
Nice one !!
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 04/09/2020 at 23:08 #131317 | |
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phil1044
161 posts |
Hi Gareth, Yes 5N62 should dep at 0036 and not 0041 as you say. I've obviously copied the timetable for that train but then forgot to edit it 5 mins earlier. Schoolboy error ! Log in to reply |
| Victoria Central Jan-Mar 2020 05/09/2020 at 10:07 #131324 | |
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kbarber
1743 posts |
postal in post 131290 said:phil1044 in post 131285 said:Yeah, local operators could usually sort things out. There was a story (apocryphal, I need to say) that when the HSTs were about to be introduced BR did a lot of work to ensure the longer carriages had sufficient clearance on the curves at each end of the Tyne bridges. They found out that not only would there not be room for the 23m Mk IIIs, but that there wasn't really room for the 65' Mk Is and their Gresley predecessors either; it was only the local knowledge of the signalmen that had kept them from having a scrape over the previous 50-odd years! (However, I note the present day layout has a lot of 3-track sections around the bridges where there used to be 4, so it can't be entirely discounted.)Hi Gareth,Full circle. I was on the first one. Followed a set swap at the Cross before scheduled running started. The IC225 sets hadn't been cleared North of Newcastle at that stage but the local operators sent it forward ECS to Heaton anyway! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: postal, phil1044 |