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| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 16:12 #133885 | |
bugsy
1766 posts |
I've no doubt that most of you have heard about the train which travelled through an Emergency Speed Restriction of 20mph at approximately 117mph. After watching a video on Youtube explaining what happened, (posted by a train driver), I was wondering how much trouble the driver is actually in, if at all, considering the circumstances as described in the video. I will understand if this cannot be discussed on this Forum. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Last edited: 15/11/2020 at 16:13 by bugsy Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 16:23 #133887 | |
Steamer
3985 posts |
I assume you're referring to the incident at Dauntsey, reported in this item from the RAIB? https://www.gov.uk/government/news/overspeeding-incident-at-dauntsey-wiltshire?utm_source=624e672f-29c4-4641-9555-1d8e54edbdeb&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 16:37 #133888 | |
JamesN
1608 posts 
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The incident was months ago, as far as I understand the driver has been fully exonerated. The RAIB report linked above outlines the mitigation as to how the blame can’t be levelled at the driver. Log in to reply |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 16:43 #133889 | |
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bugsy
1766 posts |
Steamer in post 133887 said:I assume you're referring to the incident at Dauntsey, reported in this item from the RAIB? https://www.gov.uk/government/news/overspeeding-incident-at-dauntsey-wiltshire?utm_source=624e672f-29c4-4641-9555-1d8e54edbdeb&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediateYes. I wasn't aware that a report had already been published. I shall read it shortly. Thanks Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 16:46 #133890 | |
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bugsy
1766 posts |
JamesN in post 133888 said:The incident was months ago, as far as I understand the driver has been fully exonerated.I'm glad about that. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 18:53 #133892 | |
postal
5265 posts
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If you are so minded, you can sign up to get e-mail notification from RAIB when reports are issued at https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/email-signup.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 15/11/2020 at 18:53 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 20:23 #133896 | |
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bugsy
1766 posts |
postal in post 133892 said:If you are so minded, you can sign up to get e-mail notification from RAIB when reports are issued at https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/email-signup.Thanks. I'll do that as I find the reports quite interesting reading. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 23:12 #133897 | |
Edgemaster
332 posts |
tl;dr (from memory, some details may be incorrect) A long standing TSR of 30/125 was changed at relatively short notice to an ESR of 20 due to rail temperatures on the day. Drivers were advised by the signaller until ESR speed limit boards were placed. The ATP transponders were not updated with the ESR as it was a short-term speed restriction and not cost/time effective to make the amendment. No notice of the change was placed into the daily operating notice until ~1.5hrs after trains stopped being cautioned. A driver booked on between the ESR boards being placed and the notice being issued, so did not receive the notice. On encountering the outer warning signs, the driver assumed that it was the long standing 30/125 limit board, assuming that the 125 board had become displaced. On passing the ESR commencement board, the driver realised something was wrong, and reported a possible missing speed restriction board to the signaller. Last edited: 15/11/2020 at 23:15 by Edgemaster Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 16/11/2020 at 08:53 #133901 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
Edgemaster, it wasn’t really a long-standing TSR, but rather an ESR that should’ve been converted to a TSR some time before this incident. The value of the emergency indicator (“Dalek”) is greatly reduced when you’ve been past it every day for several weeks and get used to acknowledging it, knowing that no action is necessary for a passenger train. If, however, the emergency indicator had been removed when it should’ve been, then its reappearance would almost certainly have drawn the driver’s appearance to the fact that something had changed.
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Edgemaster |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 16/11/2020 at 11:26 #133903 | |
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bugsy
1766 posts |
My understanding is that there are usually (but not always) different speed limits for freight and passenger trains. After the Emergency Speed Indicator there is an advanced ‘warning board’ (screenshot) indicating the different speeds, followed by another similar board indicating the beginning of the speed restriction. Would it not be the case that if the lower of the indicator boards (125mph) were replaced in each case with another advising drivers of the new speed for passenger trains rather than just removing them, the driver would have been given less ambiguous information and therefore taken the appropriate action? …   Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 16/11/2020 at 16:45 #133909 | |
9pN1SEAp
1180 posts |
If done at short notice, perhaps even better to have another ESR in advance of the 20, with two sets of boards and ramps?
Jamie S (JAMS) Log in to reply |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 16/11/2020 at 18:05 #133912 | |
jc92
3687 posts |
A single speed IS less ambiguous as it indicates it applies to all trains. As Tom points out, if its been enough situ for sometime, the driver is expecting a AWS horn and to ignore it. He would've known about thecm change if the late notices case had been updated in time and been expecting the reduction, or if it had been converted to a TSR, then amended again to an ESR. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 16/11/2020 at 19:15 #133918 | |
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bugsy
1766 posts |
jc92 in post 133912 said:A single speed IS less ambiguous as it indicates it applies to all trains.I stand corrected in that case. I suppose it was a very unfortunate set of circumstances. Let's hope that it doesn't happen again. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |