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| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 12:04 #139845 | |
HST125Scorton
1191 posts |
When looking at timetables it would suggest that timing point location for Kirtlebridge G.F. isn't actually a timing point this only randomly applies on Down Main from Lockerbie. When you look at schedules in advanced Kirtlebridge G.F. isn't listed only Lockerbie, Cove Signal MC862 then Gretna Jn but on the day the train runs they show. So should Kirtlebridge G.F. be a timing point?
Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 12:11 #139847 | |
JamesN
1607 posts |
HST125Scorton in post 139845 said:When looking at timetables it would suggest that timing point location for Kirtlebridge G.F. isn't actually a timing point this only randomly applies on Down Main from Lockerbie. When you look at schedules in advanced Kirtlebridge G.F. isn't listed only Lockerbie, Cove Signal MC862 then Gretna Jn but on the day the train runs they show. So should Kirtlebridge G.F. be a timing point?Where are you seeing this? I ask as Realtimetrains “helpfully” inserts guessed, scheduled times at non-timing points. Other open data sources show the actual schedules. Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 12:11 #139848 | |
Steamer
3984 posts |
If you're looking at RTT, then it interpolates a time for every location when the schedule is activated (usually around 24 hours before the train starts). For TT writing purposes, these should be ignored and only the locations shown on non-activated schedules used.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 13:01 #139851 | |
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HST125Scorton
1191 posts |
I'm using RTT but months ahead to August 18 2021. Kirtlebridge G.F. isn't shown and I think Steamer is correct it only shows 24hrs before the train departs. But when you validate a timetable for a train Kirtlebridge G.F. is automatically added into the timetable timings.
Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 20:11 #139859 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
I know this has been said but it's worth re-iterating: RTT is not a reliable source of information. Not just locations inserted but imaginary line/path codes too. If there is nothing else then fine, but I would consider other sources first.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 20:20 #139860 | |
9pN1SEAp
1180 posts |
Kirtlebridge is also not shown in the WTT as a timing pint (GF01).
Jamie S (JAMS) Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 21:05 #139861 | |
postal
5264 posts 
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I don't know whether it still happens but there is a foible related to this when ARS is activated which I found when I was tidying up the 2006 TT for the Motherwell sim a while ago. If a TT for a seed train is written with only the WTT timings points and the seed point is located before one of the auto-inserted locations, the train seeds and reports "off planned path". To avoid this the auto-insertions as far as the next WTT timing point have to be manually added and saved in the TT.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 03/06/2021 at 22:02 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 21:25 #139863 | |
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Dionysusnu
577 posts |
GeoffM in post 139859 said:I know this has been said but it's worth re-iterating: RTT is not a reliable source of information. Not just locations inserted but imaginary line/path codes too. If there is nothing else then fine, but I would consider other sources first. Is opentraintimes.com any different in this, or does it have the same issues? Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 21:31 #139864 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
Dionysusnu in post 139863 said:GeoffM in post 139859 said:OTT is pretty pure and unadulterated, from my conversations with Peter. I'd rather something that came straight from the horse's mouth, warts and all, as it were, than something where the data is modified in ways only the author understands.I know this has been said but it's worth re-iterating: RTT is not a reliable source of information. Not just locations inserted but imaginary line/path codes too. If there is nothing else then fine, but I would consider other sources first. SimSig Boss Last edited: 03/06/2021 at 21:32 by GeoffM Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 21:32 #139865 | |
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Steamer
3984 posts |
Dionysusnu in post 139863 said:GeoffM in post 139859 said:Open Train Times doesn't add locations or update line codes.I know this has been said but it's worth re-iterating: RTT is not a reliable source of information. Not just locations inserted but imaginary line/path codes too. If there is nothing else then fine, but I would consider other sources first. It should be stressed that RTT only does this to activated schedules; those more than a day in the future are identical to Open Train Times, as far as I can tell. RTT does also have the benefit of showing allocations* on the day for a number of TOCs. *Usual T&Cs apply, note that the information is also lost the day after, so get the stock noted down in one day! "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 21:55 #139866 | |
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HST125Scorton
1191 posts |
After locating the WTTs for verification Kirtlebridge isn't in the WTT as a timing pint, WTT Booklet GF01. Kirtlebridge wasn't even a location point in the timetable editor in the non loader and very first issue on the loader I had (Beta testing for TomOF). If it isn't in the WTTs then shouldn't it be in the timetable editor cause each time I add a train and validate it automatically adds Kirtlebridge with its own time. Normally I would take timings off TRUST but this time around I only have RTT/OTT and NR WTT books on offer with the correct diagram sheets from AWC/TPE/NT/SR.
Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 03/06/2021 at 21:56 #139867 | |
northroad
872 posts |
Steamer. RTT shows the allocations used for up to 7 days after the event for those operators that give them at the time. I.e. today being the 3rd of June still shows the allocated sets for 28th May Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| Timing Point 04/06/2021 at 06:33 #139870 | |
Hap
1037 posts
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Will also add to this, that unit allocations shown on RTT may not be accurate especially on days of major disruption. It can take several hours for it to be updated or unit step ups are missed.
How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 04/06/2021 at 14:36 #139871 | |
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Steamer
3984 posts |
northroad in post 139867 said:Steamer.I stand corrected- though I'm sure I've seen an XC service show as a HST (and observed it passing), then when I checked the next day for the power car number it was showing as a Voyager. Might have been a one-off. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 12/06/2021 at 21:29 #139958 | |
Chrisrail
384 posts |
Kirtlebridge is not an official Timing Point after consulting TPR for LOR SC001. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: HST125Scorton |
| Timing Point 12/06/2021 at 21:29 #139959 | |
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Chrisrail
384 posts |
Kirtlebridge is not an official Timing Point after consulting TPR for LOR SC001. Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 12/06/2021 at 21:42 #139960 | |
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HST125Scorton
1191 posts |
Chrisrail in post 139958 said:Kirtlebridge is not an official Timing Point after consulting TPR for LOR SC001.Indeed I checked these when making this post, could you post the Carstairs to Gretna Jn image as its only that direction to the South that pops Kirlebridge in as validation. Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 12/06/2021 at 22:07 #139963 | |
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Chrisrail
384 posts |
Here you go my friend Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 12/06/2021 at 22:09 #139964 | |
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HST125Scorton
1191 posts |
Chrisrail in post 139963 said:Here you go my friendThanks but wrong image haha  Carstairs-Lockerbie-Gretna this one is via GSW
Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 12/06/2021 at 22:25 #139965 | |
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Chrisrail
384 posts |
Even checking in TRUST Train 092L86M runs SO from 22/05/21 to 11/12/21 - Auto-Call Train category OO Sprinter 33 miles Applicable Timetable Service Train service code 23579003 Catering N/A Uid W93986 Sector 60 Sub-sector 56 Set up by TSDB on 05/03/21 Type WTT Location Booked C Pw Miles Tlod Ctg Pfm Eng Pth Pcnt TI 09161 CARLISLE 23:10 S 09095 GRETNA JN PASS 23:19 2 9 09085 GRETNA GN 23:20 23:21 0 10 09033 ANNAN 23:29 23:29 0 18 1 1H 09022 DUMFRIES 23:47 33 Train 071L61M runs SO from 22/05/21 to 11/12/21 - Auto-Call Train category XX Sprinter 116 miles Applicable Timetable Service Train service code 23579003 Catering N/A Uid W93047 Sector 60 Sub-sector 56 Set up by TSDB on 05/03/21 Type WTT Location Booked C Pw Miles Tlod Ctg Pfm Eng Pth Pcnt TI 08825 AUCHINLCK 23:09 23:09 0 38 08834 NEWCUMNCK 23:17 23:18 0 46 08841 KIRKCONEL 23:26 23:26 0 53 08845 SANQUHAR 23:31 23:31 0 56 09013 THORNHILL PASS 23:43 2 68 09017 HOLYWOOD PASS 23:52 2 79 1 09022 DUMFRIES 23:57 23:59 0 82 09033 ANNAN 00:14 00:14 0 98 09085 GRETNA GN 00:22 00:23 0 106 1 1 09095 GRETNA JN PASS 00:27 2 107 09161 CARLISLE 00:36 116 Train 061Z181 runs SO from 12/06/21 to 12/06/21 - Auto-Call Train category XU Loco-Hauled 344 miles Applicable Timetable Service Train service code 21708001 Catering N/A Uid U91228 Sector 89 Sub-sector 01 Set up by TSDB on 13/05/21 Type STP Location Booked C Pw Miles Tlod Ctg Pfm Eng Pth Pcnt TI 07431 HOLYTOWNJ PASS 17:46 2 113 07945 WISHAW PASS 17:50 2 116 07944 LAWJN UPL 17:55 18:04 0 119 07956 LANARK JN PASS 18:14 2 127 1 07962 CARSTAIRS PASS 18:17 2 129 07966 CARSTSSJN PASS 18:17 2 130 07972 ABINGTON PASS 18:30 2 145 07975 BEATOKSUM PASS 18:37 2 153 07977 BEATTOCK PASS 18:44 2 163 07981 LOCKERBIE PASS 18:56 2 177 2 07988 COVE862 PASS 19:08 2 190 1 09095 GRETNA JN PASS 19:12 2 194 1H 09161 CARLISLE 19:22 19:24 0 203 Train 096K201 runs SO from 12/06/21 to 12/06/21 - Auto-Call Train category DH Loco-Hauled 62 miles Applicable Timetable Service Train service code 53790125 Catering N/A UIC none Uid B24341 Sector 05 Sub-sector 16 Set up by TSDB on 03/06/21 Type STP Location Booked C Pw Miles Tlod Ctg Pfm Eng Pth Consist 09150 CARLISLEY 20:16 600 H ORIGINATING PT 09099 FLORISTON PASS 20:31 2 3 PASSING POINT 09095 GRETNA JN PASS 20:35 2 4 PASSING POINT 07985 QUINTHLPS 20:39 21:30 0 6 CALLING POINT 07989 COVE863 PASS 21:34 2 8 PASSING POINT 07981 LOCKERBIE PASS 21:48 2 21 PASSING POINT 07977 BEATTOCK PASS 22:02 2 35 PASSING POINT 07975 BEATOKSUM 22:18 22:33 0 45 CALLING POINT 07972 ABINGTON PASS 22:42 2 53 PASSING POINT 07969 SYMINGTON 22:50 62 TERMINATING PT Log in to reply The following user said thank you: HST125Scorton |
| Timing Point 14/06/2021 at 17:01 #140007 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
Please be mindful of copyright when reproducing extracts. Copyright allows for a small sample only. These extracts are publicly accessible anyway: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/industry-and-commercial/information-for-operators/operational-rules/ SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 14/06/2021 at 17:09 #140008 | |
Tempest Malice
122 posts |
Has anyone considered that "Kirtlebridge" might exist only as a timing point historically in reality. Perhaps it is in the sim only for the sake of the earlier era(s)? HST125Scorton in post 139851 said: But when you validate a timetable for a train Kirtlebridge G.F. is automatically added into the timetable timings. (though assuming that the above post is referring to sim auto-insertion on validation then it would probably make the behaviour a bit of a sim data bug as I'd imagine you don't want to be auto-inserting timing points which shouldn't exist in newer timetables) Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 14/06/2021 at 17:18 #140009 | |
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HST125Scorton
1191 posts |
Tempest Malice in post 140008 said:Has anyone considered that "Kirtlebridge" might exist only as a timing point historically in reality. Perhaps it is in the sim only for the sake of the earlier era(s)?Previous versions of Carlisle I've had during Beta Testing on Loader and the 2 EXE Version didn't bring in Kirtlebridge as a location not to mention that it wasn't in the timetable editors. Now historically it could of been used as a timing point for a previous era eg 1980s but I believe it was a cross over between Up/Dn Mains from the information I have to hand. Kirtlebridge shouldn't exist in 2000s & 2016s era, Kirtlebridge is auto populated within the timetable when validating a timetable. Under operation rules and TRUST data Kirtlebridge doesn't show. There could be a valid reason why said location is there. Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 14/06/2021 at 19:26 #140025 | |
Meld
1111 posts |
HST125Scorton in post 140009 said:When you validate the TT the auto-insert is applied, does it stay if you then click on the clear auto insert function after you click ok on the schedule ?? If it doesn't stay then theres no problem is there ? Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Timing Point 14/06/2021 at 19:46 #140027 | |
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HST125Scorton
1191 posts |
Meld in post 140025 said:HST125Scorton in post 140009 said:When validating it auto inserts and when I click Clear Auto Insert it clears off the timetable. I don't think it affects trains entering from Lockerbie but not yet checked that as I'm still writing timetables.When you validate the TT the auto-insert is applied, does it stay if you then click on the clear auto insert function after you click ok on the schedule ?? Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply |