where is platform 7 and 3

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where is platform 7 and 3 19/02/2023 at 11:05 #150543
flyingscotsman
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29 posts 		I do not know where it is!
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where is platform 7 and 3 19/02/2023 at 11:24 #150544
Steamer
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3997 posts 		They don't exist.

I think 7 used to be a west-facing bay platform tucked in between 4 and 8- see the overgrown area to the left of this picture, which was taken from the top of the tunnel: https://mapio.net/images-p/22724928.jpg

No idea where 3 used to be.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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where is platform 7 and 3 19/02/2023 at 11:31 #150545
pedroathome
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916 posts 		I don't know how relevant this thread is on Railforums, but it appears to be asking the same thing

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/huddersfield-railway-station.135263/

Edit to add, part way down, there is a link that takes you to the SRS website, where you can find the 1958 signalling notice.

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/archivesignals/brne.php

The diagram shows both 3 and 7 as being short non track circuited bays, with a shunt signal coming out, so definitely not passenger use at this time.
Last edited: 19/02/2023 at 11:39 by pedroathome
Reason: Additional info
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where is platform 7 and 3 19/02/2023 at 11:52 #150546
flyingscotsman
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29 posts 		shouldnt they renumber the platforms then
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where is platform 7 and 3 19/02/2023 at 12:11 #150547
pedroathome
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916 posts 		This could potentially cost an absolute fortune for no benifit

It's not just a case of renumbering platforms that you see, thats easy, however, when you have theatre indications that indicate the platform numbers, you then have to modify the signalling to reflect these changes. It's one of those things, if it isn't broken, don't fix it.

I also don't know the station, but there could be other reasons, like the platform numbers being carved into the building or part of some stonework that could cause great confusion. Exeter St Davids has this, although there isn't any gaps in numbering

It's also not unusual for stations to be missing platform numbers. Cardiff General doesn't have a platform 5, or at least didn't during the panel years, Bristol TM doesn't have a 14.

Places like Stockport also have a platform 0 where additional platforms have been added to fit a logical numbering sequence, again, no point modifying the interlocking, panels or VDU's at great expense
Last edited: 19/02/2023 at 12:12 by pedroathome
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re : where is platform 7 and 3 19/02/2023 at 12:34 #150550
flyingscotsman
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29 posts 		ok
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where is platform 7 and 3 19/02/2023 at 15:21 #150552
clive
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2799 posts 		pedroathome in post 150547 said:

It's not just a case of renumbering platforms that you see, thats easy, however, when you have theatre indications that indicate the platform numbers, you then have to modify the signalling to reflect these changes. It's one of those things, if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
You've also got to teach all the drivers the new numbering so that they don't accept a route into the wrong platform. Easy to make a mistake if 6 has just become 7 but there's still a 6 there (I'm thinking of what was one of the only platforms at King's Cross that could take a 373 Nolstar).

Note how, even when the layout at King's Cross was completely changed and the signalling transferred to York ROC, so all the costs of resignalling had to be paid anyway, the platforms weren't renumbered and there's still a platform 0.
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where is platform 7 and 3 19/02/2023 at 21:22 #150569
jc92
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3701 posts 		Platform 3 was an east facing bay next to P1. P7 was a short west facing bay which you can still see. Its also worth noting P1 isn't the original as it was expanded in 1993 and now sits on the former up through line.

Another example of avoiding renumbering is 2C at Sheffield, which up to 1985 had been a parcels dock worked by a ground frame. To avoid renumbering the entire station it was given the confusing C suffix which still catches people out!
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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where is platform 7 and 3 19/02/2023 at 21:30 #150571
Steamer
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3997 posts 		jc92 in post 150569 said:

Another example of avoiding renumbering is 2C at Sheffield, which up to 1985 had been a parcels dock worked by a ground frame. To avoid renumbering the entire station it was given the confusing C suffix which still catches people out!
A bit like 3C and 4C at Preston (though these have always been for passengers AFAIK), tucked away at the far end of the P3/P4 island and not at all obvious if you don't know where they are.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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where is platform 7 and 3 19/02/2023 at 22:32 #150572
clive
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2799 posts 		jc92 in post 150569 said:

Another example of avoiding renumbering is 2C at Sheffield, which up to 1985 had been a parcels dock worked by a ground frame. To avoid renumbering the entire station it was given the confusing C suffix which still catches people out!
Another example is platform 4C at Birmingham New Street.

Turning this into a platform nearly caused a nasty accident. To quote from my LL.M. dissertation:

This is an example of a design bug, where the signalling did exactly what it should, but the design was wrong.

A train was signalled into platform 4C at New Street (a dead-end) and received a double yellow at signal 244 rather than the single yellow that is required by the rules. This signal is controlled by two separate sets of circuits. The first (the "HR logic"ensures that a route is set safely and that the correct route indicator is lit; if this test is passed, the signal can clear. The second (the "HHR/DR logic"deduces the next signal along the route and uses its aspect to select whether 244 shows single yellow, double yellow, or green. The fault was in this latter circuit.

[Figure that shows signal 244 at YY, then a turnout at points 607 into platform 4C, then signal 204 on the platform 4 line at Y.]

Before platform 4C was opened it was a siding and signal 244 could not clear when points 607 led into it. Therefore the HHR/DR logic ignored it and (assuming the conditions corresponding to the dotted lines were correct) simply looked at signal 204. However, when platform 4C was commissioned, only the HR logic was changed. Thus if a route was set correctly into platform 4C, signal 244 would show single yellow if signal 204 was red, but (wrongly) double yellow or green if it wasn't. What should have happened is that the HHR/DR logic was changed to take account of the position of points 607.

[Before anyone asks, in the old layout, 244 *could* clear with a route into the siding, but it showed red+sub. For the purposes of my description, I treated that as a red signal.]
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where is platform 7 and 3 20/02/2023 at 09:59 #150573
jc92
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3701 posts 		Interesting that wasn't picked up in testing. Presumably it was tested with 204 only at danger.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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