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| Questions about level crossings on the Royston Line, 13/04/2025 at 03:30 #160832 | |
747Pilot
9 posts |
Hello, forgive me if this is poorly worded as I sometimes have trouble putting my thoughts into words. So I am still a noob when it comes to SimSig and mostly play the LUL Victoria Line but not enough to say im an expert. Today, I decided to try something different and start learning other lines. I settled on Royston as it seemed like a simple and easy simulation to manage for a beginner. So far, everything seems to be running smoothly, and I have had no issues handling the trains. However, I do have a question about how to handle the level crossings that arose after receiving a call for an abnormal crossing at Litlington. What happened was I had a train which was about to arrive into Ashwell for a stop on the down line heading towards Meldreth when I recieved a call regarding an abnormal crossing at Litlington. Since I didn't know how long the crossing would take, I decided that it would be best for them to wait and to call me back after the train had passed the crossing, which is what I did, and after the train passed I cleared them to cross. The question I have though, is regarding the proper procedures IRL since the signals before the crossing can't be controlled by the dispatcher as far as I'm aware, and their status isn't known to the dispatcher. For example, you won't know how long something will take to clear the crossing, but you can't put any of the signals before it to red protect it either. So does that mean you shouldn’t let anything cross when you have a train between where it enters from Baldock and the crossing? If something got stuck on the crossing would there be any protection so that a train wouldn’t end up hitting the obstruction? Edit) Nevermind, I realized you can place the signal just before the crossing to red. I tried clicking the little circle next to the signal before but it didn't do anything and should of looked up what the symbol meant. Last edited: 13/04/2025 at 06:07 by 747Pilot Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Questions about level crossings on the Royston Line, 14/04/2025 at 23:09 #160848 | |
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TUT
569 posts 
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In general, if you receive a telephone call from a user of a level crossing you must, in real life, find out: - Which crossing the user wants to use. Yes you will generally know this as the telephone concentrator will tell you which phone is ringing, but you still have to reach a 'clear understanding' so as to dot the i's and cross the t's. - What is required to pass over the crossing - How long it will take SimSig does not currently allow you to find out how long it will take the user to cross. Also if you want to pass a signalling exam or do well on a real life comms review you should try at all times to avoid saying things like 'OK', 'yep', 'alright' or anything that could in any way, regardless of context, sound like you're agreeing to their request. Sounds a bit much, but the line might be bad and you can see how if you ring me up and say 'I want to cross the line' and I say 'okay ... um, let me see, where abouts are you' there is a small risk that you, in a hurry, might hang up after I've said 'okay ...' to give myself a bit of thinking time while I check my diagram. Now the rules then go as follows. You must provide signal protection if: - The user is crossing with animals (this doesn't include a domestic animal like a dog) - The user is crossing with a large, low or slow-moving road vehicle - The user is crossing with something with small wheels that may get caught in a flangeway Although the Rule Book doesn't explicitly state it, the policy is that if the user advises they need longer than three minutes to cross with their vehicle then we should treat the vehicle as large, low or slow-moving. Indeed we would typically provide signal protection if the user asks for more than three minutes whatever they're crossing with. Signal protection is provided by placing signals to danger and applying reminder appliances to prevent us from clearing the signals. We will maintain those signals at danger until the user calls us back to report that they are clear (so we must remember to tell them to do this). If the user doesn't report back that they're clear the driver of each train must be told to approach the crossing at caution, not pass over the crossing until they are sure it is safe to do so and tell us whether the crossing is safe. Normal working can only be resumed once we have been told it is safe. If signal protection is not required you are permitted to just grant permission to cross if you are sure there is sufficient time for this to be done safely, even with a train approaching, without replacing signals to danger, provided there is definitely plenty of time. You can do this. Not everybody is bold enough to do this. You're relying on the user to be a very good judge of how long it will take them and also the information you have about exactly where that approaching train is and how long it will be before it gets to the crossing isn't necessarily all that precise so that's definitely not for the faint of heart. But if someone who's on their own on foot just needs a couple of minutes to cross the track and the next train is still at least 10 minutes away there isn't really a problem. Now these rules are general and are mainly used in real life when dealing with requests from user-worked crossings . Littlington is an Automatic Half Barrier crossing with, well, automatic half barriers and red road lights. Most of the time users do not need to ring up to get permission to use this crossing (unlike a user-worked crossing where they do need to get permission and where the barriers (rarely) or gates are worked by the user (the actual definition of a user-worked crossing is a bit more fiddly but never mind that now)). However, as automatic half barrier crossings operate automatically and are not interlocked with signals drivers of large or slow-moving vehicles do need to ring for permission to cross as if they take too long to clear the crossing or get stuck on the crossing the system will not know that and the train will come along on clear signals at full speed. If the crossing were controlled then there would be a check that the crossing was clear (whether undertaken by a human or by obstacle detection equipment) before the protecting signals could clear and a train could be allowed to approach and then you would notice the stuck HGV or whatever and not clear the signals so you don't need to get permission before using the crossing (although if you get stuck you should obviously not rest on your laurels but treat it as an emergency!) Anyway the point of all this is that telephone calls from automatic half barrier crossings are relatively much less common but the rules do provide for that and the Royston simulation does model them. If you get a call from Littlington AHB it should only really be from a driver of a large, low or slow-moving vehicle and so signal protection will be necessary. Otherwise they can just use the crossing normally. But in real life you'd still ask all the questions. You'd also need to make sure you weren't going to delay a train if you applied signal protection and granted permission. As you have discovered the correct way to apply signal protection is to right-click the E (emergency replacement switch) roundels for K973 and K974 signals and that will place and maintain those signals at danger. You should then ideally apply a reminder appliance to those E buttons (left-click the reminder button next to the clock, then left-click the now red-filled E roundel). AHBCs will have signals which can be placed to danger immediately protecting the crossing. Smaller user-worked crossings may not. In fact the first signal which can be replaced to danger may be several signals further back down the line. That is just the way it is (or rather, it's more just the way it was in older installations) and you just have to live with that. If you need to apply signal protection you will have to go back that far. The protecting signal might also be controlled by another signaller in which case you would have to ring them and get them to replace that signal to danger. SimSig does simulate this in some of its simulations. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: KCRCRailway, postal, bill_gensheet |
| Questions about level crossings on the Royston Line, 14/04/2025 at 23:27 #160849 | |
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TUT
569 posts
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If you're interested here is a picture of the real life King's Cross PSB as it was in happier days, before the dark times, before the ROC concept https://photos.signalling.org/picture?/20524/category/2138-2008_july You can see Litlington level crossing and K974 and K973 signals and you can see the buttons on the track. The 'E' is still clearly visible on K974's button although it appears to have worn away from K973's. The real life signaller would have pulled that button up to replace the signal to danger. Notice how K974 and K973 signals have dark circles unlike the hollow ones of K972, K971 and K970. There was actually a red lamp there and when the replacement switch was pulled up the red lamp would illuminate to confirm that the signal had been replaced to danger. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: 747Pilot, postal |
