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| Open Door on Class 66 03/11/2010 at 17:01 #1978 | |
Holmes
9 posts |
Just a quick query on protocol. Whilst travelling recently on the District line pulling out of West Brompton station I noticed a freight going through the overground station being pulled by a class 66. The rear door of the 66 was open and moving freely with the movement of the locomotive. I take it, this was an error or fault of some sort? My question is, would a signaller (or any railway staff for that matter) flag this up or take any action? Obviously nowhere near as dangerous as no tail light or an open passenger train door so I was just wondering what would the protocol be in such cases. Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 03/11/2010 at 17:01 #12360 | |
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Holmes
9 posts |
Just a quick query on protocol. Whilst travelling recently on the District line pulling out of West Brompton station I noticed a freight going through the overground station being pulled by a class 66. The rear door of the 66 was open and moving freely with the movement of the locomotive. I take it, this was an error or fault of some sort? My question is, would a signaller (or any railway staff for that matter) flag this up or take any action? Obviously nowhere near as dangerous as no tail light or an open passenger train door so I was just wondering what would the protocol be in such cases. Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 03/11/2010 at 17:55 #12361 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
I believe I've seen class 60/6 (in motion) with driver's door fixed open...
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| Open Door on Class 66 03/11/2010 at 18:07 #12362 | |
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Albert
1315 posts |
Here in NL we also have class 66's and even name them class 66. And here it also happens that drivers let a door open, but that's not limited to class 66. It's no problem for most station staff. I don't know what about signalmen, but don't think they're likely to notice an open cab door as they will watch the trains on their panels instead of the real trains.
AJP in games Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 03/11/2010 at 18:21 #12363 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
Its aninward opening door on a no-pax vehicle so most wouldn't worry about it.
Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 03/11/2010 at 18:34 #12365 | |
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Albert
1315 posts |
Here, we once had a loco type with loose chairs in the cab. It was mandatory to close the right door of the cab (driver sat at the right), and if there was a second person, also the left door. Especially at 50mph points, chair plus driver could be swung out of the cab.
AJP in games Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 07/11/2010 at 02:35 #12391 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
I've seen this many times already and it is one of my real dislikes. Doesn't bear thinking about what antics a troublemaker could get up to if they managed to climb, undetected, into one of these opened door whilst the Class 66 was perhaps held at a red (at a station or elsewhere). That said, Class 66s (at least hear in the UK, anyway) have a secondary door that actually leads into the cab itself and that door is normally closed. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 08/11/2010 at 21:21 #12408 | |
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ralphjwchadkirk
275 posts |
UKTrainMan said:I've seen this many times already and it is one of my real dislikes. Doesn't bear thinking about what antics a troublemaker could get up to if they managed to climb, undetected, into one of these opened door whilst the Class 66 was perhaps held at a red (at a station or elsewhere). Nothing much. Most they could do in the rear cab/engine room is stop the thing, and the driver will have a nice heavy bardic 
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| Open Door on Class 66 08/11/2010 at 21:24 #12409 | |
jc92
3690 posts |
UKTrainMan said:surely a trouble maker could just open the door  im sure the average wrongdoer has the brainpower open a door?
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 08/11/2010 at 21:50 #12411 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
AFAIK, once the door is closed it would require a key to open it again, the sort of key that only train drivers (and perhaps other railway staff) would have. Leaving it left open basically defeats the object of the lock & key. I shouldn't have to clarify my previous comment any further, but have a think about it and if you still can't see what I can see happening then you're welcome to PM me and I'll spell it out for you. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 08/11/2010 at 21:54 #12412 | |
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jc92
3690 posts |
slightly moving the discussion to a tangent all locos up to a class 56 (not 100% on later ones as i havent worked on any later ones) are not key locked and require a chain and padlock. the only key i can think of is a carriage key which is used to open everything on 2nd gen dmus and emus and coaches. and a carriage key is readily available to anyone who has ebay or a milling machine
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 09/11/2010 at 00:15 #12413 | |
ajax103
1120 posts |
I happened to see a HST one day leaving a station with the door of the leading cab open, I expect the driver wanted some air conditioning for their cab, lol!!!!
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| Open Door on Class 66 09/11/2010 at 00:28 #12415 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Seen that many times too, like the [female] NXEC HST driver who departed northbound from Peterborough with cab door wide open. Also, I was once making a journey on GWML out of Paddington and saw an ECS HST coming off the flyover heading into Paddington and door on GWML side of rear Power Car was open...hope it didn't get up to too much of a speed on its way into Paddington otherwise driver will have to clean out all the flies 'caught'..... :lol: Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 09/11/2010 at 18:22 #12420 | |
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Sam Tugwell
494 posts |
We have Class 220's and the occaisional 221 to Paignton operated by Cross Country, and it staggers me how many of them have an open door as the pull out of the station. As there is often a wait at Newton Abbot, i normally stop and grab a quick photo of the unit, and what do I see? A door still open!
"Signalman Exeter" Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 14/11/2010 at 21:56 #12499 | |
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NWR
11 posts |
UKTrainMan said:once the door is closed it would require a key to open it again, the sort of key that only train drivers (and perhaps other railway staff) would have. Leaving it left open basically defeats the object of the lock & key.Hi UKTM. That is incorrect, if you close the cab door on a 66 all you have to do is pull the handle down to re open it, it doesnt lock automaticly. If you want to lock it you have to close the door then lock it with a T key. Hope that helps. All the best. Simon Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 15/11/2010 at 01:03 #12503 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
NWR said:UKTrainMan said:I guess I stand corrected then! Still, having it left wide open is all too inviting for some yob to do something untoward.once the door is closed it would require a key to open it again, the sort of key that only train drivers (and perhaps other railway staff) would have. Leaving it left open basically defeats the object of the lock & key.That is incorrect, if you close the cab door on a 66 all you have to do is pull the handle down to re open it, it doesnt lock automaticly. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 15/11/2010 at 08:49 #12507 | |
DazrahT
47 posts |
I regularly see many 37/66/86/90's rattle past the box with cab doors open. I doubt it's down to sheer lazyness. Class 66 cab doors take hell of a whack to get them to shut, and I suspect that most just pop open enroute. And as a signaller would I report it, not at all, i've got more important things to worry about than cab doors open. Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 15/11/2010 at 10:59 #12509 | |
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kbarber
1743 posts |
As a signalman I wouldn't consider an inward opening door on a loco to be a hazard requiring any kind of reporting. Any open door on a passenger carrying vehicle certainly would warrant a report (in fact if I still had a signal available to me it would lead to the driver getting a red - in his face if necessary). Any outward-opening door would lead to the same - being outside the vehicle body profile it's a hazard even if not strictly foul of the loading gauge (not something a signalman has the information to decide). But an inward-opening door on a loco is not a safety of line issue. I'd have let it go on its way.
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| Open Door on Class 66 15/11/2010 at 20:41 #12518 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
kbarber said:As a signalman I wouldn't consider an inward opening door on a loco to be a hazard requiring any kind of reporting. Any open door on a passenger carrying vehicle certainly would warrant a report (in fact if I still had a signal available to me it would lead to the driver getting a red - in his face if necessary). Any outward-opening door would lead to the same - being outside the vehicle body profile it's a hazard even if not strictly foul of the loading gauge (not something a signalman has the information to decide). But an inward-opening door on a loco is not a safety of line issue. I'd have let it go on its way.I believe my opinion would be the same - I'd put more trust in a driver being able to not fall out of his door than a passenger. An open door on a passenger train would definately be a stop, and a possible examination of the line if the guard/TTI isn't satisfied everyone can be accounted for. Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 21/11/2010 at 18:22 #12587 | |
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GB
64 posts |
Technically all doors on the loco are ment to be secured (ie shut) when the train is in motion...there is no requirement for them to be locked. (Incidentally they are not locked using a T key) However for what ever reason there are times when a door is seen to be open in transit but as previously mentioned, they are inward swinging and pose absolutely no danger to railway operations. Most people don't bat an eyelid but when it is reported it is usually from an eager platfrom staff member. There are ALOT more dangerous things a scroat can do to a freight train than being in the back cab.
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| Open Door on Class 66 21/11/2010 at 23:23 #12593 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
GB said:There are ALOT more dangerous things a scroat can do to a freight train than being in the back cab.Am I right in thinking the cabs are locked out unless you have some sort of key? I know in the US you need to put in the reverser handle, and that obviously there's not much you can do with the thing stuck in neutral. Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 22/11/2010 at 00:06 #12594 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Danny252 said:Am I right in thinking the cabs are locked out unless you have some sort of key? I know in the US you need to put in the reverser handle, and that obviously there's not much you can do with the thing stuck in neutral.Correct, a drivers key. Like you say, sometimes it goes into the reverser handle but sometimes there is a dedicated key hole for it in the dashboard somewhere. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 22/11/2010 at 14:54 #12597 | |
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GB
64 posts |
With the 66's, the reverser handle is the key. Unless its inserted you cannot move the throttle lever to gain power and you cannot put the train brake on (amoungst other things). However you can still put the loco brake or parking brake on.
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| Open Door on Class 66 22/11/2010 at 17:55 #12598 | |
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ralphjwchadkirk
275 posts |
Yes, trains do have a certain type master key, or EP key. Note - I haven't photographed it in full, so that someone doesn't get clever on a lathe! Log in to reply |
| Open Door on Class 66 24/11/2010 at 09:48 #12622 | |
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Osprey
35 posts |
As a driver that has driven the 66 for over ten years the doors are supposed to be shut but they are of pretty rubbish quality and they do pop open and as they open inward they don't cause a safety problem.I personally don't shut them in case I need to get out quickly as they can jam.Also the cabs are very uncomfortable in the warm weather and they are jammed open for extra draft.I wonder how anyone could fall off the seat and out the door! The EP key doesn't do anything on a 66,I use mine as ballast for car keys as I'm forever loosing keys.A big fuss is made of locking the cab doors but on the occasions Ive not had my door key it doesn't take a genius or a master cat burglar to get in!
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