Page 1 of 1
| Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 06:22 #22824 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
Since I can't seem to find any info for newbies about what to do on encountering a "DEF:" instruction, I thought I'd post a walk-through of my own solution, using Southampton v2.201 with Beginner scenario. This is not necessarily correct. Your comments are welcome. 4O65-1, a Class 4 Freightliner, enters from ROMSEY at 05:43 (to play through it, set the start time to just before this). Its destination is to enter MILLBROOK FLT in the DOWN direction. However, since it has to travel UP from ROMSEY to reach MILLBROOK FLT and apparently is not permitted simply to reverse and back into MILLBROOK FLT, it will have to find a siding beyond Millbrook where the loco can detach, run around the train, reattach at the back and then pull the train DOWN line until it terminates at MILLBROOK FLT. That siding is the UP GOODS LOOP. If we examine 4O65's timetable we see it performs two activities at UP GOODS LOOP, DEF:0O65 and J:0O65. The following might seem a bit artificial but I understand software constraints require run-round simulations to be performed in this manner.  This is the end of the UP journey from Romsey. A route had been set from signal 752 to 748, 4O65 has stopped in the UP GOODS LOOP and the loco is in the process of DEtaching itself from the Front of the train, hence the "DEF:" code. The "0O65" after it is the headcode (TD) assigned to the detached loco running alone. Be careful not to mistype the first two digits in the headcode. The first is a zero (for "light loco"), the second a capital O (for "Trains to Southern Zone").  Uncoupling has taken place. The remainder of 4O65 (aka "consist"  is waiting for the loco (0O65) to rejoin it. Notice that the Train List has a new addition, 0O65, waiting for right-away at UP GOODS LOOP. So your next step is to change 4O65's headcode to 0O65. After this is done, clicking 0O65 brings up its timetable, telling you what to do next.  Set a route from 748 to 736 and 0O65 will trundle to Southampton 1 and automatically reverse. Note that its direction has changed to Down. (Note: If the previous train 2D02 is still occupying Southampton 1A, 0O65 will occupy 1B.) 0O65 is waiting for "right-away". Note also that 4O65, waiting in the UP GOODS LOOP, has no berth (no Train Descriptor).  Set a route from 736 to 769 and 0O65 will move DOWN the UP line until it has passed 752, when it will stop as its timetable dictates.  (To be continued) Last edited: 13/11/2011 at 06:28 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 06:26 #22825 | |
|
maxand
1637 posts |
Set a route from 752 to 748 and 0O65 automatically rejoins 4O65.  By now, rejoining has occurred, 0O65 has disappeared from the Train List and 4O65 is waiting to exit the UP GOODS LOOP.  However, its headcode is still showing 0O65, so we need to Interpose it back to 4O65. That's better: we can now see its next and final stop is MILLBROOK FLT.  Common sense suggests that the next step might be to set a route from 753 to the MILLBROOK FLT entrance (arrowed). The route is accepted but for some peculiar reason, nothing happens and the train does not move.  However, after cancelling the above route and resetting it from 753 to 939 and then MILLBROOK FLT, 4O65 finally makes it home.  Note 1: I have no idea what "FLT" in "MILLBROOK FLT" means. Flat? Freight Line Terminal? Maybe someone knows, then if this is a common acronym it could be added to a future list. Note 2: Perhaps there is some way to assign a berth to the nameless 4O65 waiting in the UP GOODS LOOP while 0O65 is doing the run-round; if so, I haven't found how to do it. Note 3: The manual states: Quote: If you are running the “beginner” scenario, just set the route into the yard as normal. If not, then you need to telephone the shunter to tell him what train is coming. Make sure you do it in plenty of time to allow him to reach the yard entry point, set the points, press the SR plunger, etc.The "SR plunger" is Quote: the Shunter's Release plunger (indicated by the letters SR with a roundel on the screen). This will happen when (a) the route is set into the yard; (b) the train description is correct for that train; © the train is approaching the yard; (d) the shunter has been told about it; and (e) that train is destined to go into that yard.You can see the SR followed by a dot (roundel) to the left of the grey entry arrow in the MILLBROOK FLT yard. All this is too complicated for me as a simple newbie. I'll leave that to the experts - none of this should be needed if you're playing at Beginner level. Maybe I'll post a step-by-step walkthrough for this one too when I figure it out. Last edited: 13/11/2011 at 06:34 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 07:15 #22828 | |
|
ralphjwchadkirk
275 posts |
That's a very useful post! Thanks.
Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 07:34 #22829 | |
|
alvinhochun
249 posts |
I've only played a very little bit of this sim, but my first train ever had is 4O65. I thought when it has detached and heading to platform 1, I had to interpose the 4O65 TD back to it immediately. P.S. I remember I also used sticky notes to remind me for 0O65. Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 09:18 #22831 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:Since I can't seem to find any info for newbies about what to do on encountering a "DEF:" instruction.There is a bit about "DEF" here, though I think there's more that could be added and there is at least one typo. FLT is a generally recognised term for FreightLiner Terminal the more important thing to what it means is actually whether the label on the screen matches the timetable description. There have been instances in the past where this has not always been the case which does cause difficulty. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 09:28 #22832 | |
jc92
3690 posts |
the wiki for souhampton is quite out of date now as it swas written for the paged version. there are still references to ARS for instance, and as with the shunters release, it references a phonecall which doesnt need to be made anymore. as for interposing (entering) a train description, there are three methods to manually enter it to any location with a Train describer berth 1. click on the TD interpose button which presents you with a text box in which to enter the train description in. click ok and then click on the signal on which you wish to place the train description. this is 748 and 753 in this case. 2. use the keyboard shortcut "i" which has the same effect as pressing the TD interpose button. 3. right click on the signal and select interpose train description from the menu which appears. if you dont see a menu then you will need to go into the F3 menu (options), go to the control tab, and uncheck right click cancels route. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 13/11/2011 at 09:34 by jc92 Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 09:43 #22833 | |
|
jc92
3690 posts |
i have now edited the wiki page and removed all references to ARS from the old version and also edited the yard working sections so it is clear no phone call is required to send a train in, and you can simply route straight into the yard hope ive done right, it is meant to be user contributed! "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 10:40 #22835 | |
Meld
1111 posts |
DEF & DER are used a lot in AGilchrist's Edinburgh 1985 Timetable (which is nearly ready for release) An Example of this on one of the first trains entering the sim 1E43S has the following instructions : DEF:0G43 J:0E43 N:1E43 The following should then happen :whistle: 1E43S arrives in the platform - the incoming loco detatches becoming 0G43 to stable up before going light for fuel/servicing, to be replaced by a new loco arriving as 0E43, which will then proceed to join to 1E43S, once the join is completed the new service formed becomes 1E43. Note that in the first 15/20 minutes this is happening simultaneously in both platforms 1 & 10 as 3E50 also requires a loco change :whistle: Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 11:48 #22836 | |
|
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
If I remember rightly the reasons for a separate DER and DR was to enable changes of power type. Previously if you changes a diesel engine to an electric you had problems unless the whole timetable was set for dual power. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 11:58 #22839 | |
|
jc92
3690 posts |
could it also be that DR could be splitting two multiple units (both are still capable of moving under power) and DER is for loco hauled stock (loco can move, it is impossible to move the stock without a join)
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 12:25 #22843 | |
|
maxand
1637 posts |
Thank you all again for your most helpful feedback. I guess I should have included a link to the Wiki section on DEF. Here is the relevant info: Quote: Detach TrainThat helped me understand what it means, but knowing what to actually do with this information was not entirely clear, hence this thread. (Thanks to whoever corrected the typo). On searching the forum for help on DEF I came across a reference to the Edinburgh Sleeper. I did try downloading and running the Edinburgh sim but was so overwhelmed by its complexity that I gave it away! Not for beginners. jc92, thanks for updating the Southampton manual. Am I to understand that you also modified the sim itself? On checking the download page, the current version of the sim is still V2.201, (12 Nov 2009). Is there a newer version available? One last issue. In my post #2, I mentioned Quote: Common sense suggests that the next step might be to set a route from 753 to the MILLBROOK FLT entrance (arrowed). The route is accepted but for some peculiar reason, nothing happens and the train does not move.Nobody has commented on this apparent anomaly. Maybe there's some rule about setting routes between shunt signals that I overlooked. Last edited: 13/11/2011 at 12:32 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 12:42 #22845 | |
|
jc92
3690 posts |
" said:
i havent modified the sim at all, im not the developer for southampton, nor anything actually. i have just updated the wiki page as it hadnt been changed since the new scrolly version was provided, minus ARS and with some changes to the telephones. as for that anomaly i would assume its just coincidence that by the time the train was ready to depart the loop you had reset the route for him, dont forget trains dont always instantly depart timetabled locations "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 13/11/2011 at 12:43 by jc92 Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 12:55 #22846 | |
|
maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks jc92. I had thought that only the developer for that sim was allowed to edit the manual. OK, I'll have a go at higher difficulty levels and see what happens. Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 13:35 #22850 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
As I haven't seen it here already... DEF stands for Detach Engine Front. This means the remaining portion of the train has no motive power and won't be able to move until a loco has attached. DF stands for Detach Front. This is used for multiple units where both portions have some form of motive power. Last edited: 13/11/2011 at 13:39 by mfcooper Reason: Used 'Divide' instead of 'Detach' Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 14:23 #22852 | |
|
kbarber
1743 posts |
That's a nice detailed explanation Maxand - and good on you for asking the questions us old hands have all forgotten about. Not to criticise, but it might be worth pointing out that part of what you describe could perhaps be considered optional. If you were a real-life signalman and able to keep in touch with what's happening on your panel, you probably wouldn't input a headcode for the light loco (0O65), as it's only making a local shunt. In fact there's no technical (as opposed to procedural) reason a train staying within one signalbox area needs a description at all, unless there's ARS to drive (the existence of automatic train recording and reporting systems are likely to result in management action, though, if you don't use them, and in a busy area they're pretty essential). In SimSig the train/loco knows what & where it is (as shown on the F2 list) and the signalling system knows a train is there - track circuit/s are down and will drop & clear as the object moves in obedience to signals. In real life the working timetable wouldn't show 0O65 at all, it would just have RR or R to indicate the run-round move, timetabling it is only necessary to facilitate SimSig's internal process. And I can't imagine any of the signalmen I knew going to the trouble of setting up and interposing an extra description when they don't need to, even more so if they're going to have to do the same again a few minutes later. Historically of course, there were initially no train describers at all; where automatic sections existed trains were simply described by bell code and it was up to the signalman to keep track of them all. Early describers just substituted for the bell codes and only showed one approaching description. The Southern Railway "magazine" type showed up to three approaching descriptions (and held more in blind storage) but the first description had to be cleared out by the signalman as each train passed, and each train had to be described manually to the next box - there was no automatic transmission as we see it in SimSig. So from my dinosaur (signalman in 1980) perspective, describing local shunts & suchlike seems a bit strange, unless they're going to pass into another signalbox area or unless there's a specific reason you might need reminding it's there. But of course some people might want to keep a full picture of everything that's on their panel. And I may, of course, be ignorant of rule changes requiring absolute 100% description of everything that moves Last edited: 13/11/2011 at 14:25 by kbarber Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 13/11/2011 at 20:56 #22869 | |
|
clive
2789 posts |
When I'm doing a runaround move, I tend to just stick with the original headcode rather than interposing the loco's headcode. So with this move I would just leave the 4O65 description there throughout, knowing that the unnamed train in the loop is the real 4O65 and the thing moving is the loco. Quote: we see it performs two activities at UP GOODS LOOP, DEF:0O65 and J:0O65. The following might seem a bit artificial but I understand software constraints require run-round simulations to be performed in this manner.I'm not sure what you're complaining about. 4O65 does do two things at this location: it detaches its loco (which becomes 0O65) and then, later on, joins to another train (which happens to be that same loco, but so what?). Or are you complaining that the loco has got to go to Southampton and then Millbrook? If so, what's so artificial about that? It's what happens in real life! Quote: Common sense suggests that the next step might be to set a route from 753 to the MILLBROOK FLT entrance (arrowed). The route is accepted but for some peculiar reason, nothing happens and the train does not move.I don't know what you mean by "nothing happens" - the screenshot you include shows the route set and the signal cleared to a shunt aspect. How long did you wait for the train to move? Quote: Perhaps there is some way to assign a berth to the nameless 4O65 waiting in the UP GOODS LOOP while 0O65 is doing the run-round; if so, I haven't found how to do it.Right-click on the signal at either end of the loop, and "Interpose" should be an option. I don't know who first asked about the difference between DEF and DF, but DF is for splitting MU trains where both parts can move, while DEF (and DCF) are to split a loco off of a train; the train part has no traction and can't move. Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 16/11/2011 at 05:13 #23033 | |
|
maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks Keith for your interesting comments on the history of headcodes. Also thanks Clive for inspecting my original posts. Looking back, I see I made some errors. Hopefully the following will correct them. I guess the first thing to mention is that in the first 2 pics, 2D02 should not have been at Southampton 1 at all! Its destination is Platform 3. So please disregard it. Clive said Quote: When I'm doing a runaround move, I tend to just stick with the original headcode rather than interposing the loco's headcode. So with this move I would just leave the 4O65 description there throughout, knowing that the unnamed train in the loop is the real 4O65 and the thing moving is the loco.That's the kind of timesaving technique that comes with experience, in fact I'm doing it now (see pics below). Once it dawned on me that 0O65 is simply the loco (0) for train 4O65, it's easy to remember. As a newbie, though, losing a headcode is a worrying thing with an unpredictable outcome, also no means of Removing or otherwise communicating with a train unless you've given it a headcode - and it must be the correct headcode too! Without a headcode, too, it's more difficult to look up the train's timetable to know where it's supposed to be going next. Clive also said Quote: I'm not sure what you're complaining about ("The following might seem a bit artificial"). 4O65 does do two things at this location: it detaches its loco (which becomes 0O65) and then, later on, joins to another train (which happens to be that same loco, but so what?). Or are you complaining that the loco has got to go to Southampton and then Millbrook? If so, what's so artificial about that? It's what happens in real life!I used the word "artificial" as I'd read somewhere on the forum (unfortunately can't find it again) that the way SimSig is programmed to do run-rounds is not prototypical but achieves the same effect. Disregard this if not true, with apologies. The only thing I find surprising is that, as you say, the loco 0O65 does have to go right into Southampton platform before it can reverse. Maybe that's because it can only reverse at a signal - it can't just stop as soon as it reaches the main line (nowhere near a signal), reverse, stop as soon as it's positioned to reenter the siding from the opposite direction, etc., maybe being given only one authorization to do the whole thing all by itself. Is this closer to reality? I stated Quote: Common sense suggests that the next step might be to set a route from 753 to the MILLBROOK FLT entrance (arrowed). The route is accepted but for some peculiar reason, nothing happens and the train does not move.To which Clive replied Quote: I don't know what you mean by "nothing happens" - the screenshot you include shows the route set and the signal cleared to a shunt aspect. How long did you wait for the train to move?You're quite right. :blush: It took about three minutes before it finally began to move (either that or I inadvertently had the sim on Pause, easy to do!). I should have pressed F to speed it up. I said Quote: Perhaps there is some way to assign a berth to the nameless 4O65 waiting in the UP GOODS LOOP while 0O65 is doing the run-round; if so, I haven't found how to do it.Clive replied Quote: Right-click on the signal at either end of the loop, and "Interpose" should be an option.I didn't know that, thanks! Well, for newbies here are some corrected pics of a run-round in action! 4O65 has detached its loco (0O65), which is waiting at 748 for clearance to Southampton 1.  0O65 (taking with it 4O65's berth) has now arrived at Southampton.  At this point you can do what Clive suggests (leave it as 4O65) or be strictly accurate. Let's interpose 4O65 to 0O65 and right-click on signal 753 to interpose 4O65 onto the train's consist (train minus loco).  Of course, you could have used 748 instead. And if you'd used both, you would have ended up with this schizophrenic train!  No matter, 0O65's headcode would have overwritten the RH one when it returned. Or you could Cancel either one. ;) Since 0O65's timetable takes it to 752 as its next stop, you must clear it to the first signal PAST it (939), since it is reversing here (reversing trains stop with their rear to the destination signal, not their front). To do this, you will need to set the route 741-751-939. Since we have no block length information, we can only hope that there is enough space for it to fit between 752 and 939. However, In the next pic we see it stopped as soon as it passed 752. After all, 0O65 is only a single loco!  Now set a route from 752 to 748 (the only signal in UP GOODS LOOP facing the same direction as 752) and wait for 0O65 to join with 4O65. The Train List (F2) will announce when joining is complete.   (to be continued) Last edited: 16/11/2011 at 06:39 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 16/11/2011 at 05:51 #23034 | |
|
maxand
1637 posts |
Since by now, 0O65 is no longer on the Train List, you can Cancel its berth. Set a route from 753 to MILLBROOK FLT (arrowed) and 4O65 will move there.  MORE PICS In this pic 0O65, treated as 4O65, sets out on the first leg of its run-round, from 741 to 751.  You should be careful not to clear the loco beyond the first signal (939) downline of its destination (752), even though you might feel it needs more room. For example, if you set a route from 751 to 769 instead of 939, its headcode might stay behind!. Here the loco is shown heading back upline to rejoin its consist, whose berth (arrowed) is now empty. Maybe a bug?  Not to worry - simply Interpose one and Cancel the other until it reads correctly. One last thing. If you leave 4065 on its way to Millbrook and return later, you may find it waiting at 945.  It's not that 4O65 failed to make it to MILLBROOK FLT, it's that it did so while you weren't looking, loaded/unloaded there and has now emerged from the other end of the loop, ready to go to SOUTHAMPTON MCT. So set a route from 945 to 957...  thence to the MCT entrance (arrowed), and 4065 will be on its way.  What does MCT stand for - ?? Container Terminal? Last edited: 16/11/2011 at 06:21 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 16/11/2011 at 11:16 #23049 | |
|
kbarber
1743 posts |
" said:
I think you're both right and wrong. If the big railway were ever to require that every movement has some sort of timetable (and it may be that ARS areas already do?) it would surely be done the way SimSig does it, except that the "activity" information would be unnecessary (or would it?). I suspect IRL that, even in IECCs, run rounds are dealt with by the bobby intervening to signal the moves. " said: The only thing I find surprising is that, as you say, the loco 0O65 does have to go right into Southampton platform before it can reverse. Maybe that's because it can only reverse at a signal - it can't just stop as soon as it reaches the main line (nowhere near a signal), reverse, stop as soon as it's positioned to reenter the siding from the opposite direction, etc., maybe being given only one authorization to do the whole thing all by itself. Is this closer to reality? In the old days before they used this new-fangled electrickery for signals, you could do it the quick way. Any kind of shunt would be taking place in "station limits" (a technical definition relating to the old Absolute Block system) close to a signalbox and under the (hopefully) eagle eye of a signalman. So, as soon as the loco cleared the first set of points, the bobby would swing them and handsignal the movement to go t'other way, with a green flag (officially) or by waving him back (how it was really done most of the time). In fact I believe some companies (most particularly the old Midland Railway) provided very few shunting signals on the basis that all such movements would be under the direct control of the bobby. But when the movement is controlled from many miles away (Southampton is worked from the panel at Eastleigh), there's no way of giving handsignal authority - it has to be done by a fixed signal. The routesetting system also doesn't facilitate routine setting of individual points. It's also worth bearing in mind that the diagram is schematic and absolutely not to scale, so the distance into the platform at Soton may only be a few yards IRL. " said:
IRL that'd be waiting for the loco to be hooked on. Remember there's only likely to be one shunter; if he's lucky the driver will give him a lift as he's running round, otherwise the poor guy has to walk the length of a freightliner, which takes a while - walking on ballast is a bit on the slow side. The loco will take a few moments to buffer up to the train - it isn't necessarily in contact & ready to couple at the moment the track circuit indications merge. Even when hooked on & piped up, it takes time to blow up the brakes on a long train (especially if it's single-pipe, as opposed to twin-pipe air brake). As the next move is virtually an extended shunt they may not bother with a brake test; if they did that would put several minutes more in the wait. I guess this is a "game" factor as opposed to the seemingly programming-related issues you've been voicing; on the railway the "enemy" isn't a physical opponent, it's the clock and defeating old father time is what the job's all about. A war you can never win, even if the day's battles have been successful. That's one of the things that makes working on the railway so fascinating. Incidentally, I think MCT is Maritime Container Terminal. Last edited: 16/11/2011 at 11:17 by kbarber Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 16/11/2011 at 13:54 #23052 | |
|
clive
2789 posts |
" said:That's a real railway convention: the loco for 1O65 or 4O65 or 9O65 is given the headcode 0O65 when running to or from the train. Similarly the empty stock to become or after termination of 1A11 will be 5A11 (or occasionally 3A11). Quote: That's half-true. On SimSig all train movements have to be timetabled (apart from the "shunt forward" feature in F2, which just starts a train moving with no plan). So we have to add an extra train and a set of moves where a real working timetable would probably just say "RR" ("Run Round" and let the signaller sort out the details. Though if the loco had to go a significant distance, or had to hold somewhere to let another train past, the move might be timetabled for real.It might be possible to code a "run round" feature, but it would be quite hard - after all, where does the loco stop to reverse? The first signal in the opposite direction might well not be the right place. So don't expect this to change any time soon. Quote: That's a real railway restriction - see Keith's post. In SimSig trains (including locos) can only reverse at locations that can be timetabled (ignoring the F2 "reverse" feature), but these don't have to be signals. If they aren't, though, the driver may come on the phone to ask for permission to move. Quote: You're quite right. :blush: It took about three minutes before it finally began to moveTrains don't start moving the second that signals turn green in front of them. There's a whole slew of reasons, from the driver being distracted to having just climbed out to use a signal post phone to needing to do a brake test. So, yes, you may have to wait. Three minutes does sound quite long, though; it should be no more than 40 seconds. " said: No, not a bug, a specific layout issue that's copied from the real railway. Train describers aren't psychic; they can only work on what's visible. So when the train passes 751 signal (assuming it's off) the describer needs to move the description from berth 751 to somewhere else. Where? Well, if the route is seet to 769, the describer assumes this is a main line train heading east and so jumps it straight to berth 769. If the route is only set to 939 it assumes the train is going into the FLT and jumps the description to berth 939. Yes, it could do the former in two steps, but putting it straight to 769 means the signaller sees the description there earlier, knows that the route is set up to that signal, and has the information at his fingertips for setting the route onwards. SimSig is simulating this behaviour; it's not something we've invented. Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 16/11/2011 at 14:09 #23057 | |
|
AndyG
1842 posts |
" said:Could also be the train/loco waiting for right time to depart; in particular, a loco RR is best timetabled as a 'set-down' time, it will then depart early if it's ready to go. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Last edited: 16/11/2011 at 14:12 by AndyG Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 16/11/2011 at 14:49 #23059 | |
|
Forest Pines
525 posts |
Or (if you're writing a timetable) you could put in "00:00" for every timing point on such a move - that way, if I understand things correctly, it moves as soon as it can and doesn't get counted for scoring either.
Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 16/11/2011 at 20:03 #23083 | |
|
UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
" said:Or (if you're writing a timetable) you could put in "00:00" for every timing point on such a move - that way, if I understand things correctly, it moves as soon as it can and doesn't get counted for scoring either.Indeed, that is how I understand it works. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Re: Help for DEF newbies 17/11/2011 at 04:20 #23112 | |
|
maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks everyone and especially Keith and Clive. After all this, the DEF: instruction should hold no fears for anyone, particularly in the Southampton sim!
Log in to reply |