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| Copy Train ID to clipboard? 18/12/2011 at 23:41 #25769 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
Sometimes despite my best efforts, the Train ID disappears from its berth, to be replaced with "xxxx", or, worse, the berth itself disppears and need to be reinstated. SimSig hasn't forgotten about the train, so my next step is usually to open the Train List (F2), if it isn't already open, locate the train on it, then find a suitable signal on the panel next to the train and interpose the TD onto it by typing it in. Slightly faster than this is to right-click the train on the Train list, hover over Timetable Options, left-click Edit timetable, then highlight the TD in the Train ID field, copy it to the Clipboard (Ctrl+C), then open the Interpose window and paste it in. The advantage here is that the mouse hand (usually the R hand) can remain on the mouse while the opposite hand reaches the Copy and Paste windows shortcuts. The additional advantage is that this method is less prone to typos (making a mistake in the headcode), and it is not necessary to take one's eyes off the panel and look at the keyboard, for those who hunt and peck. Even this sequence could be shortened appreciably by adding a "Copy Train ID" option to the Train List's context menu. It should be very easy to code this in. What do you think of this suggestion? Last edited: 18/12/2011 at 23:59 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 18/12/2011 at 23:58 #25771 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
PS I guess most of you guys know this, but what also helps me is that when I get a telephone call from a shunter, I highlight and copy the Train ID as shown in the grey Answer call > Message panel, copy it to the Windows Clipboard, then paste it in when I interpose it without needing to type it in. (Added) The other things I don't like about having to open Edit Timetable just to be able to copy a TD are that: 1. I may inadvertently alter the TT, corrupting it in some way without realizing it; 2. Once I open the TT editor, I invariably get asked when exiting the sim "Timetable not saved. Do you want to save it?", leaving me wondering whether in fact I had altered it; 3. Once the TT editor window is opened, I cannot scroll the sim. So being able to bypass the TT editor with a simple option to copy the ID to the clipboard is preferable. Last edited: 19/12/2011 at 00:16 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 00:52 #25774 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
There is a danger here of making SimSig more of a game rather than a simulation - the latter of which which it currently is. Real signallers will almost certainly know where they are likely to lose a headcode and so will probably make a note of or simply remember the headcode. This is where stickies come in use for us lot. If you've opened the Timetable Editor to get the headcode then just press the Escape key twice on your keyboard to close both the Timetable Editor window and also the train list. The tab on the Timetable Editor window that contains the headcode has nothing on it that you can edit which will affect the train once it has entered the simulation. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Last edited: 19/12/2011 at 02:59 by UKTrainMan Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 01:35 #25779 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
It's 3 numbers and a letter, it almost certainly isn't any faster to mouse over the ID, mouse over the TD and then scroll down the right click list to "paste ID". Hitting I, typing 4 characters and clicking the TD is much quicker. Whilst some of your suggestions seem to be rather helpful for newer players, others come off as "I can't be bothered to press 3 buttons, why can't you make it one?". Putting so many things into hotkeys and right click menus that no one knows all of them anyway isn't much of a help... Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 07:37 #25781 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:Putting so many things into hotkeys and right click menus that no one knows all of them anyway isn't much of a help...I can see that easier ways of doing things aren't for everyone. Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 09:21 #25786 | |
dmaze
88 posts 
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The easiest thing here is to not lose the headcode. One thing that's helpful: in your example where you're looking for an "0V14-1", you can just enter "0V14" pretty much everywhere (interpose box, "pass signal at danger?" prompts, stickies) and it will work, and the sim will be able to fill in the "extra" digits if you click on a TD to get its train's schedule. The only time you really need the whole thing is (a) if the TT has multiple trains active with the same headcode at the same time (Bristol is prone to 1Bxx DF: 0Bxx1 J: 0Bxx2, where 0Bxx1 will sit around to go into a siding while you're pulling 0Bxx2 out of the yard) or (b) if you're entering a TD early for some reason and the TT has multiple trains ever with that same headcode; in both of these cases, the sim's guess as to what the extra digits are is based on some train that actually exists now.
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| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 10:16 #25788 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks dmaze. While reading your reply it occurred to me that the real problem begins when a headcode or berth disappears offscreen while you're busy attending to other trains, and when you return to the train you may not be able to recall which train it was, nor what the original headcode was. Not as idiotic as it sounds and (in my case, anyway) quite easy to do. Sticky notes are a useful proactive measure, for example when a train is entering from an area for which there is no berth. How to dredge up the missing headcode, particularly if a train has stopped where the headcode needs to be changed. The Train List offers the best help, but even there the signal number may not resemble anything on the signal map, and the location may be somewhere distant. So maybe what we also need is a log of recent Train IDs. When the user is stuck he can go to the Show menu and see what headcodes were in use. Or maybe the ability to revert a current headcode to its predecessor. Or maybe the option to log all events to a text file as the user plays, so that he can see how he got into this mess. This matter of a headcode log deserves its own topic, but I see the ability to copy a headcode from the Train List to the clipboard in one step as a small advance with a lot of potential. Last edited: 19/12/2011 at 10:17 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 10:40 #25791 | |
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Kage
65 posts |
I've often wished I could drag a headcode from a timetable or phone message to a sticky note, and be able to click on the headcode for say 5A11 for a N:1A11 and have it jump to the timetable for 1A11, then have a link back to 5A11 from 1A11, like Ex 5A11 or something... Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 10:42 #25792 | |
Steamer
3985 posts |
" said:The Train List offers the best help, but even there the signal number may not resemble anything on the signal map, and the location may be somewhere distant.I don't understand this- the signal number plans are accurate, and the location is never too far away in screen terms, since the Sim requires fairly close locations in the WTT to know where the train has to go (to my knowledge, anyway). " said: So maybe what we also need is a log of recent Train IDs. When the user is stuck he can go to the Show menu and see what headcodes were in use. Or maybe the ability to revert a current headcode to its predecessor. Or maybe the option to log all events to a text file as the user plays, so that he can see how he got into this mess.I think the first two are unrealistic, and again the word 'game' springs to mind, however the last one would be very helpfu, and would be close to the logs made in real life. It would also help multiplayer hosts track down disruptive players. " said: I can see that easier ways of doing things aren't for everyoneThat's the joy of a simulator! Realistic layouts and signalling, realistic limitations. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 10:50 #25793 | |
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kbarber
1743 posts |
Again, I think this is a situation where a real-life signalman would know the job well enough to have a good knowledge of what was around & therefore how to describe thngs where descriptions had dropped out. Indeed, as I've said before, the norm would probably be not to interpose descriptions at all for purely local shunt moves; even if a shunt were going into sidings controlled by a shunter, the description would most likely be given by telephone and there would be no particular need to interpose it. (And IRL the description given would be more likely to sound like "engine off the parcels for you Jack" than "0C00 for down sidings".) I do think this is another issue of simulation vs gaming. Not that it shouldn't be raised, I think it's important that we're encouraged to think these things through rather than just assume the way we do it is correct. I would incline to the view that what Max is asking for is more a gaming than a simulation capability so I'd probably not support it - but that's a purely personal view from an "old-railway" dinosaur and I think it's well worth having the debate. Last edited: 19/12/2011 at 10:54 by kbarber Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 11:42 #25798 | |
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dmaze
88 posts
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" said:the real problem begins when a headcode or berth disappears offscreen while you're busy attending to other trainsSo headcodes don't "just disappear". They should only vanish if you're setting a shunting route to somewhere where you'll need to recover the train later (it's not exiting and re-entering). The only time I can think of this really being a problem is around the station on Sheffield, which is the canonical place where "set routes from main signal to main signal and ignore the shunts if at all possible" applies. Quote: Sticky notes are a useful proactive measure...and I use them a lot, but if you're worried about "losing" a train then you should write up the sticky when you set the route. After playing a sim for a bit you generally get a good idea for where they're necessary. Aside from specific places like Sheffield, I generally find the TD system works well enough, so I find this long stream of requests for improved headcode management kind of mystifying. If I was building my own I might do it with a very graphical representation of specific trains and cars, but it'd also be a fundamentally different experience. Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 23:01 #25828 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Some interesting comments here and thanks again Keith Barber. I haven't really started looking into why berths and headcodes occasionally disappear. Sometimes it's clearly a bug; for example, in Bristol Modern Era, when a train passes Up through Bristol Parkway coming from Filton Junction, its berth disappears and magically reappears, minus train, on the DN GDS line. That's an easy one to spot and fix, if the train hasn't moved too far by the time you discover it. I underlined that to emphasize that in SimSig one is not usually dealing with a single workstation-size panel view, one is trying to play the whole area, maybe half a dozen screens' worth. A train can travel a fair way by the time you discover an anonymous red stripe and have no idea which it is or where it's supposed to be heading. The commonest cause of my losing my berths was that it took a while to grasp the need to interpose new headcodes ahead of the train at the next signal rather than where the red stripe is or was. That fixed most of them, but not all. I doubt real operators at IECC panels have as much trouble with headcode berths as I seem to have with them; that would be intolerable. Steamer seemed puzzled by my comment: The Train List offers the best help, but even there the signal number may not resemble anything on the signal map, and the location may be somewhere distant. I meant that the signal number or name listed on the timetable may be titled differently from the one in the actual sim from which the Train List is derived, and that the Curr/Prev location may be a distant previous location. It doesn't happen often, and becomes less important as one becomes more familiar with the sim, but it does creep in and can be disconcerting just when one needs confusion the least, i.e., when encountering a new sim. I suspect it happens more often when running a sim to a timetable not created by the sim's original author. Quote: That's the joy of a simulator! Realistic layouts and signalling, realistic limitations.I'm all for workstation-sized panels rather than paneloramas. The workload should thus be more realistic and just as interesting as a result of artistic timetabling. I'm not an octopus. Maybe we should limit some sims to semaphores and ground frames. Last edited: 19/12/2011 at 23:07 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 23:12 #25829 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
(Added) You might ask, in that case why not play old Panel Display-type versions where you press 1-6 to jump between the windows? My answer is that this would be the worst combination; jumping between views instead of scrolling, to keep up with a bloated timetable. As Gilbert and Sullivan put it, make the punishment fit the crime. Reduce the timetable to what the operator of a single panel view window might be expected to handle comfortably. Maybe this is why I enjoy playing sims like Wesley Sub, that fit comfortably on one screen. Even dear old Royston hasn't lost its appeal. Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 23:31 #25831 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
" said:So maybe what we also need is a log of recent Train IDs. F3 Options -> Messages -> Select from the Train Location Reporting drop-down box "Always". Once done, if you lose a headcode and really can't work out what it is, you could just scroll through the list and hope to find it from there based on the location it last passed. Same works for F2 Train List, just look at it's Current/Prev location. " said: Or maybe the option to log all events to a text file as the user plays, so that he can see how he got into this mess. Hmmm... " said: as I've said before, the norm would probably be not to interpose descriptions at all for purely local shunt moves; even if a shunt were going into sidings controlled by a shunter, the description would most likely be given by telephone and there would be no particular need to interpose it. (And IRL the description given would be more likely to sound like "engine off the parcels for you Jack" than "0C00 for down sidings".) If only a certain ex member who used to host a lot would leave me (and probably others) alone to deal with a run round without forcing me (and probably others) to interpose the headcode (or interposing it themselves...(yes...fiddling with my workstation..)) only to loose it moments later as expected. I kept telling them I had it all written down on stickies but they couldn't possibly avoid interfering.... [/rant] Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Last edited: 19/12/2011 at 23:32 by UKTrainMan Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 19/12/2011 at 23:41 #25832 | |
postal
5265 posts |
" said:Reduce the timetable to what the operator of a single panel view window might be expected to handle comfortably. Maybe this is why I enjoy playing sims like Wesley Sub, that fit comfortably on one screen. Even dear old Royston hasn't lost its appeal.There is a very simple answer if you are not comfortable with what SimSig offers . . . . . “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 19/12/2011 at 23:42 by postal Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 20/12/2011 at 00:04 #25836 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
UKTrainMan wrote Quote: F3 Options -> Messages -> Select from the Train Location Reporting drop-down box "Always".Might cause a bit of clutter, but a great suggestion nonetheless, thanks. postal wrote Quote: There is a very simple answer if you are not comfortable with what SimSig offersAgree, I'm looking forward to writing my first timetable soon. Last edited: 20/12/2011 at 00:07 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 20/12/2011 at 02:57 #25847 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
" said:Or maybe the option to log all events to a text file as the user plays, so that he can see how he got into this mess.Already built into the sim for testing purposes. It is not activated in the released sim for fear of upsetting the user's computer's disk space. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 20/12/2011 at 05:04 #25850 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:It is not activated in the released sim for fear of upsetting the user's computer's disk space.I have a 2 Tb drive. Would that be adequate for a short game? 
Last edited: 20/12/2011 at 05:06 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 20/12/2011 at 08:08 #25855 | |
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alan_s
152 posts |
" said:.... I haven't really started looking into why berths and headcodes occasionally disappear. Sometimes it's clearly a bug; for example, in Bristol Modern Era, when a train passes Up through Bristol Parkway coming from Filton Junction, its berth disappears and magically reappears, minus train, on the DN GDS line. ....I play Bristol a lot (as its my local) always in modern mode, and I've never seen that happen. Purely out of curiosity, can you describe the route you are setting? Alan Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 20/12/2011 at 09:26 #25865 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:" said:I've played Bristol a fair bit as well and don't remember this happening..... I haven't really started looking into why berths and headcodes occasionally disappear. Sometimes it's clearly a bug; for example, in Bristol Modern Era, when a train passes Up through Bristol Parkway coming from Filton Junction, its berth disappears and magically reappears, minus train, on the DN GDS line. ....I play Bristol a lot (as its my local) always in modern mode, and I've never seen that happen. Purely out of curiosity, can you describe the route you are setting? "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 20/12/2011 at 09:33 #25868 | |
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Steamer
3985 posts |
" said:
Timetable locations are fixed and used by everyone, regardless of whether they wrote the sim. I agree that some locations do need fiddling with to bring them in line with what is written on the panel. And yes, these things have to be learned when starting a sim for the first time. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 20/12/2011 at 09:55 by Steamer Reason: typos Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 20/12/2011 at 09:36 #25870 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
A 'real life signalman' if he lost the TD, would have to either look it up in the Working Timetable (Nice big thick book), look on TRUST (Computorised timetable in simple terms) or stop the train at a signal, wait for the driver to call in and ask him. I'm sure that if signallers at work had F2 then their job would be so much easier!
Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 20/12/2011 at 09:42 #25871 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
" said:I agree that some locations do nto bring them in line with what is written on the panel.Many a time, what is written on the panel doesn't match what is in the timetable. Sometimes names change. A phenomenon since privatisation and shared sidings is that the same single siding will have several TIPLOCs (identities), one for each freight company - sometimes even more than one per company if it's for different purposes. " said: A 'real life signalman' if he lost the TD, would have to either look it up in the Working Timetable (Nice big thick book), look on TRUST (Computorised timetable in simple terms) or stop the train at a signal, wait for the driver to call in and ask him. I'm sure that if signallers at work had F2 then their job would be so much easier!And even then might not know until the driver complains. I was at Swindon B back in the days when Oxford to Banbury was a TD black hole. Somebody had interposed a pair of freight trains the wrong way around, probably because one overtook the other at Fenny Compton, and they went different directions at Didcot. Result was a wrong routing, all because somebody somewhere forgot which train was which while they were undescribed. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 20/12/2011 at 11:33 #25875 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
And I thought SimSig was inconsistent! Thanks for the feedback. PS I'll try to reproduce the Bristol bug and post back. Too late at night right now. Last edited: 20/12/2011 at 13:40 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Copy Train ID to clipboard? 20/12/2011 at 14:42 #25888 | |
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kbarber
1743 posts |
" said:" said:A 'real life signalman' if he lost the TD, would have to either look it up in the Working Timetable (Nice big thick book), look on TRUST (Computorised timetable in simple terms) or stop the train at a signal, wait for the driver to call in and ask him. I'm sure that if signallers at work had F2 then their job would be so much easier!And even then might not know until the driver complains. I was at Swindon B back in the days when Oxford to Banbury was a TD black hole. Somebody had interposed a pair of freight trains the wrong way around, probably because one overtook the other at Fenny Compton, and they went different directions at Didcot. Result was a wrong routing, all because somebody somewhere forgot which train was which while they were undescribed. This was occasionally a serious problem on the Fenchurch St line. Fenchurch was controlled from a power frame in the 1935(?-ish) box; the boxes at Stepney East (now Limehouse) & Gas Factory Jc had been abolished as part of the 1961 resignalling & an NX panel added, the new setup being worked by 2 signalmen. An early 4-character describer system covered the line from Gas Factory eastwards, Fenchurch itself relying on the signalman's memory a l'ancienne. The section from Fenchurch to Stepney was 4-track, merging there into 2. On the panel, 6 "set up" berths were provided for each down line; as each train passed the signal protecting the convergence it picked up the description waiting on its line, which then stepped from berth to berth all the way to Tilbury or Shoeburyness (it says 'ere... no, it was usually surprisingly reliable). Usual procedure, especially in the peak, was for the panel signalman to set up the next 6 timetabled descriptions on each road, allowing him to deal with busy moments then refill the berths when he had a moment. I'm sure you know what I'm going to say next. Occasionally the Frame man would send a train out on the other line than it was timetabled. Sometimes when he did that, he'd assume the panel man had seen what he'd done. Or he'd forget to say anything. Or the panel man wouldn't register what he was being told. So not only the next train through, but another 11 after that (and more besides if no-one noticed until Barking came on the phone) went off with wrong descriptions and everybody blissfully unaware. Unaware, that is, until a driver rang in from BK16 signal calling Barking signalman all the so-and-sos under the sun (this was East London remember) for wrong-routing him. By which time there probably were 11-odd wrong-described trains in the section and more being added all the time. At that time, the Fenchurch St peak turned out 12-car trains at 2.5 minute intervals from 4 platforms, into the 2-track section from Stepney to Barking (7 miles distant), with 4-aspect signals at minimum braking distance throughout. At the best of times it was madness (in spite of which we occasionally managed 100% right time in the peak). When that sort of thing happened..... Log in to reply The following user said thank you: GeoffM |