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| Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 06:53 #27625 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
 Here's a pic of Red Cow level crossing in the Exeter Sim. The overlaps can be seen extending across the LC, so what's the point of allowing overlaps to do this if the barriers are up? Would a barrier be expected to prevent a train from overshooting and hitting road traffic? Wouldn't it be safer to disallow setting routes like this until barriers are down? Just another innocent question. 
Last edited: 18/01/2012 at 06:54 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 07:29 #27629 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
The line speed through the platforms (and therefore over the Level Crossing) at Exeter is low enough that the overlap is perfectly safe to extend across the level crossing. And anyway, last time I was at Exeter there was an Oompa Loompa on the crossing, so they'll no doubt be keeping an eye on things. Also, I don't think the motorists even know about overlaps, so probably wouldn't give a moments thought to it.
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 07:36 #27630 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:1. Oompa Loompa  If I saw an Oompa Loompa, I think I'd stop too. 
Last edited: 18/01/2012 at 07:40 by maxand Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Aurora |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 08:28 #27637 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
While a train can't be signalled over a controlled level crossing until it is closed against the road, an open level crossing is not considered to be an obstruction in the overlap. After all, the overlap is intended as an emergency measure only, so the chances of it being used for an overrun and a car coming over the crossing at the same time were seen as low enough to be an acceptable risk. Remember that in many installations - some of which may still be around - the red disc on the crossing gates was the protecting signal, with only a distant signal worked by the crossing keeper. With the increases in road traffic this policy has been reviewed, and while open level crossings are allowed in the overlap, they have to be at least (IIRC) 50 metres in advance of the protecting signal. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 09:17 #27643 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts 
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" said:Remember that in many installations - some of which may still be around - the red disc on the crossing gates was the protecting signal, with only a distant signal worked by the crossing keeper. As an interesting aside, Thornton Abbey (on the S Humbs sim) is still like this in reality, in one direction. Edit: I did, of course, mean Barton Lane LC rather than the adjacent station! Last edited: 18/01/2012 at 11:02 by Late Turn Log in to reply |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 10:52 #27654 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
" said:While a train can't be signalled over a controlled level crossing until it is closed against the road, an open level crossing is not considered to be an obstruction in the overlap. Likewise in Absolute Block; a level crossing open to road traffic within the clearing point is not to be considered an obstruction. The alternative, of course, is that gates had to be closed before a train could be given permission to pass/leave the previous signalbox, conceivably 5 miles or more distant. I can just see the average driver tolerating that; they don't even like waiting the minimum that's needed to give greens (and signalmen do occasionally get threatened/assaulted, it has to be said). Log in to reply |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 11:47 #27661 | |
jc92
3685 posts
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an interesting point is that MOVING TRAFFIC over a level crossing is not an obstruction, however queued traffic, or slow moving/wide loads etc are. this got a couple of signalmen fired for accepting trains with a blocked clearing point. seems quite a few locations now place the signal such as to allow a truly safe overlap, shireoaks and kiveton park spring to mind. sometimes theres approach control as at worksop (which never applied when west and east boxes were open), or double red protection such as at ulceby. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 12:15 #27664 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts
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Doesn't sound right to me - surely that'd mean you'd need to send obstruction danger if traffic came to a stand, no matter how briefly, over the crossing after you'd accepted a train? Nothing would ever have got through Lincoln! Happy to be corrected, of course! Log in to reply |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 12:22 #27666 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Quote:With the increases in road traffic this policy has been reviewed, and while open level crossings are allowed in the overlap, they have to be at least (IIRC) 50 metres in advance of the protecting signal.Yep sort of. There are no restrictions if the signal is at least 50m from the crossing. If the protecting signal is closer that 50m there needs to be further precautions in place such train speed detection in order to illuminate the red road lights if it appears that the train is approaching the signal too fast. Regardless of the distance of the signal from the crossing you have to have overrun protection that will automatically illuminate the red road lights (missing out the amber phase) in the event that a train SPAD's the signal. (This is usually activated by treadle or track circuit occupation) So this is indeed a warning to motorists. All those motorists that see the red lights have only just started and decide to race across before the barriers lower could be making the last mistake of their lives. I've been onboard a train that has SPAD'd a signal protecting an open crossing at speed and has stopped 5 coach lengths over the crossing. A woman very nearly jumped the red lights that day but thought better of it. FF Log in to reply |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 12:22 #27667 | |
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jc92
3685 posts
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" said:Doesn't sound right to me - surely that'd mean you'd need to send obstruction danger if traffic came to a stand, no matter how briefly, over the crossing after you'd accepted a train? Nothing would ever have got through Lincoln!i know i was vague regarding this, its one of those things that can never be carried out exactly right. ill try and explain a bit better. say for instance a transformer needed to cross, taking a significant period, blocking back inside home should be used (clearing point to be obstructed) not sure if it applies anymore. regarding sending obstruction danger, a moving queue doesnt apply provided there is some sort of flow (as i understand) its when a long standing gridlock occurs for instance, in which case a train could never have been accepted in the first place, i spose, like with pelham st prior to the bridge and high st, common sense has to prevail. a queue might have been a bad example, i beleive in one of the cases, it was a broken down car which caused a (legitimate) blockage. in theory traffic shouldnt queue on a crossing anyway.... "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 17:17 #27689 | |
Steamer
3984 posts |
kbarber said:Likewise in Absolute Block; a level crossing open to road traffic within the clearing point is not to be considered an obstruction. If PCRail is accurate, at some locations signalmen didn't even need to apply the 'bring the train nearly to a stand at each signal' rule if an open crossing was the reason he couldn't clear the section signal. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 17:44 #27694 | |
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jc92
3685 posts
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" said:kbarber said:PCrail allows the signalman to do that becuase there were two boxes at evercreech junction one for the station one for the junction, hence junction could pull off all his signals, however the driver would pass stations distant at caution and need to be drawn on. their sim makes a compromise in this respectLikewise in Absolute Block; a level crossing open to road traffic within the clearing point is not to be considered an obstruction. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Something to make motorists nervous 18/01/2012 at 18:01 #27700 | |
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Steamer
3984 posts |
jc92 said:PCrail allows the signalman to do that becuase there were two boxes at evercreech junction one for the station one for the junction, hence junction could pull off all his signals, however the driver would pass stations distant at caution and need to be drawn on. their sim makes a compromise in this respectAh, forgot about that. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |