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| How does the Neck Siding work? 01/02/2012 at 08:30 #28523 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
I've started playing Lime Street but can't find anything about the Neck Siding. I can see where it is but would like to know why it's there and what it's used for. I've Googled this as well but drawn a blank. Also what's the purpose of the strange Y-shaped points at its Down end? Thanks.
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| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 01/02/2012 at 09:32 #28527 | |
58050
2660 posts |
In the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s & to a lesser extent the 1990s Liverpool Lime Street was the terminating poin for quite alot of loco-hauled train services. The 'Neck Sdg' was used for the stabling of locos awaiting there next tun of duty. However the 'Neck Sdg' is quite long & could hold 2 or 3 main locos or a couple of 2 car units. the sidings in between platforms 'A', 'B' & 'D' were also used to stable locos, units & parcel vans. You just signal locos or units onto the 'Neck sidig' to await a there next platform when it becomes free & then signal the train back out into Lime street station.
Last edited: 01/02/2012 at 09:35 by 58050 Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 01/02/2012 at 09:36 #28528 | |
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GoochyB
222 posts |
My assumption on the Y shaped "points", is that it is a different form of catch point. Usually a catch point, like the one you first found in Royston, will divert a 'runaway' to one side when a route is not set - the side away from any other running lines. However, in this instance there are running lines both sides, so rather than divert one side or the other I assume that the rails open out on both sides, like in the diagram, so that a 'runaway' effectively falls between the rails and is grounded without veering to either side. Because it is coming out of the neck anything approaching it could only be running at a low speed, and I imagine that use of such points would be limited to low-speed circumstances. I think I have seen this Y arrangement elsewhere in Simsig, from memory on Wembley sub, where the situation is similar - it is protecting a turnback siding that is between the running lines. Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 01/02/2012 at 10:57 #28534 | |
jc92
3701 posts |
" said:My assumption on the Y shaped "points", is that it is a different form of catch point. Usually a catch point, like the one you first found in Royston, will divert a 'runaway' to one side when a route is not set - the side away from any other running lines. However, in this instance there are running lines both sides, so rather than divert one side or the other I assume that the rails open out on both sides, like in the diagram, so that a 'runaway' effectively falls between the rails and is grounded without veering to either side. Because it is coming out of the neck anything approaching it could only be running at a low speed, and I imagine that use of such points would be limited to low-speed circumstances.sheffield (real life) has several of these traps, present where there are running lines on both sides, hence diverting the train would make no gains. they are set up, as you say to drop trains into the four foot The SBSIs for lime street indicate that a DMU or loco can only be put into the neck siding if there is definetly no requirement for the crew to leave the train, either to change ends or otherwise. this is becuase of the very limited clearance to either side. it could/can however be used to store stock provided a shunter and/or driver can gain access to it. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 01/02/2012 at 10:57 #28535 | |
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clive
2799 posts |
Correct - these are called "wide to gauge points". Google images offers me 
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| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 01/02/2012 at 11:07 #28536 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Amazing. Thanks a lot. (added) Clive, I couldn't get your link to work for me, but here's a nice pic - maybe one of the ones you saw. Also more on wide-to-gauge in Wikipedia under catch points. Last edited: 01/02/2012 at 11:22 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 01/02/2012 at 17:42 #28580 | |
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ledgero2
93 posts |
" said:Harrow & Wealdstone turnback i believe. i think there are some on the Oxted sim too Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 01/02/2012 at 21:03 #28620 | |
DriverCurran
695 posts |
I can confirm that East Grinstead has them on the Oxted sim. Paul You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 11:36 #28648 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
I'd like to ask one more question about Neck Siding that the manual doesn't seem to have an answer for. Routes for trains returning from the Neck Siding must be set from Signal 19A to whichever siding or platform is specified in their timetables. However, they won't reenter the area till a route is set for them from this signal. If they're off the panel in the Neck Siding, I can't click their berth to bring up their TT, so I can't know which siding to set a route to. It's a catch-22 situation. No one's posted this problem before, so there must be some really simple solution that I've missed. Thanks again for your help. (added) Also, why the white arrowheads (2 in the above pic)? Am I meant to use them for anything? Last edited: 02/02/2012 at 11:37 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 11:38 #28649 | |
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derbybest
274 posts |
A sticky note would solve that
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| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 11:47 #28651 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks. Is there no other solution (beside paper)? Strange. I would have expected the neck siding to have a berth (even though that's not a requirement for a siding).
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| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 11:53 #28652 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:The white arrows are used to set the shunt routes from the platform starters. Mainly used when swapping locos around. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 12:03 #28653 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks headshot. I haven't got to this part of the sim yet. When I tried adding sticky notes I thought this feature had been disabled in Lime Street. Then I discovered a big zone (marked in red below) where right-clicking to add a sticky note doesn't work. Anyone else notice this?  Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 12:48 #28654 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
The area I have set for the size of the sim is only just larger than the diagram. SimSig adds extra black space for larger screen sizes, but this is just dead space and not able to be used for sim objects or sticky notes.
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| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 13:00 #28655 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
mfcooper, Thanks for replying. Is there any alternative to derbybest's solution to displaying the TT of a train waiting to reenter Lime Street via Neck Siding?
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| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 13:06 #28657 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
" said:mfcooper, Thanks for replying. Is there any alternative to derbybest's solution to displaying the TT of a train waiting to reenter Lime Street via Neck Siding?Nope See the photos here for pictures of the signal box. There is a separate train describer system, but it doesn't include berths for any of the sidings. There seems to be a mention of "the train describer above the lever indicators", but I believe that is in reference to an older system that may or may not be in use any more. Need to get a visit up there one of these days... You can also see lots of bits of paper lurking around the frame. Just like every signal box I have ever been into. Some of these would also show trains in the sidings, if there are any. I expect, in modern timetables, that the sidings are rarely used. Last edited: 02/02/2012 at 14:28 by mfcooper Reason: typos Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 13:16 #28658 | |
postal
5269 posts |
The train is still showing in the F2 list so the TT can be accessed by that route (even if it is not an ergonomically efficient way to do it!). However, that won't act as a visible reminder of departure time or routing.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 14:46 #28661 | |
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jc92
3701 posts |
i dont see what the issue is here? its a siding so even if there was a panel its unlikely it would have a berth. sticky note it if it doesnt have a berth. as a side note, theres NO berths at the real box so SimSig is already handing you everything on a plate (please can we have the option to hide" TD berths :P) "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 16:25 #28664 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Quote:Is there any alternative to derbybest's solution to displaying the TT of a train waiting to reenter Lime Street via Neck Siding? Putting the trains ID into a sticky has to be the easiest way. When you route the train into the siding, look at the working it forms, put that new train ID into the sticky and hey presto, you have it's platform and exit time at the click of a mouse. simples! Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 17:23 #28666 | |
Steamer
3997 posts |
maxand said:waiting to reenter Lime Street via Neck Siding? I think you might have got a bit confused- the Neck Siding is simply none-track circuited track, not an entry/exit point. As a general rule, if there is a vertical line at the end of the siding (as there is here), it means that trains remain in-sim, and the style of track represents none-track circuited track. If there was no vertical line at the end of the siding, then it could be used as an entry/exit point. At the edge of the controlled area, that style of track represents none-controlled track, as opposed to none-track cicuited track. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 02/02/2012 at 23:33 #28686 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks Steamer. Yes I did get confused. The thick vertical line at the end of the siding makes it all clear. A sticky note is definitely the answer. Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 04/02/2012 at 17:01 #28815 | |
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trolleybus
150 posts |
As would right-clicking the train in the F2 train list to edit the timetable.
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| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 08/02/2012 at 02:54 #29049 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
ledgero2 wrote: Quote: GoochyB wrote:Thanks, you're right. Wembley Suburban has another set of wide-to-gauge catch points at the entry to Watford siding. Just to make this perfectly clear to me, I'd like to ask: is the term "neck siding" a descriptive term for any siding like this (e.g., the siding between two main lines at Harrow and Wealdstone in the Wembley Suburban sim), or is the name of this siding specific to the Lime Street station? I've googled a couple of references to "neck siding" here and here, but there do not seem to be very many of them. Was the one at Lime Street the first, giving its name to others? Last edited: 08/02/2012 at 02:55 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 08/02/2012 at 06:45 #29053 | |
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pilotman
189 posts |
For the record the WTG trap at East Grinstead mentioned by P Curran in his Oxted SIM is alive and well and caught out a Southern driver a few months ago. He had overlooked the LED shunt signal at danger. This siding also provides the Bluebell Rly access to NR and has been used to shift 1000's of tonnes of spoil as part of the extension works to EG.
Last edited: 08/02/2012 at 06:46 by pilotman Log in to reply |
| Re: How does the Neck Siding work? 08/02/2012 at 06:50 #29054 | |
Peter Bennet
5419 posts |
" said:ledgero2 wrote:Perhaps since the generic term for the approaches to some stations is "The throat" then the "Neck" might be related to that. I'd suggest that perhaps you don't get too hung up on the name and just accept that that is what it's called and probably has been for 100 years. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Sam Tugwell, maxand |