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| 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 07:28 #29056 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
When I analysed Lime Street's timetable using Tools 1 it returned no fewer than 235 warnings. This seems a large number for a sim that was apparently fully tested before release. Maybe one of the developers can throw light on the reason for this. Last edited: 08/02/2012 at 07:32 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 07:41 #29057 | |
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Aurora
183 posts |
I think they are all technicalities like 'train should have no departure time' because the vast majority of those trains change their run numbers before they depart. Or am I thinking of something else...
Nil. Log in to reply |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 09:20 #29065 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
I've not looked myself but generally warnings are just that- rather than errors which will cause real difficulties. Some warnings are, as Aurora says, due to technical violations of the writing policy, whereas others will highlight anomalies with train joins and divides and next workings which would need to be further investigated. Often timetable writers, for your information, will write the expected departure time of the next working at the end of a terminating train's timetable- that's to assist you in knowing what's likely to happen next but is a policy violation hence the warning. If the last train of the day is left in-Sim, say stabled in the neck siding, then that will cause a "no next working" warning. So the answer to the question "does it matter" depends on the particular warnings you have. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 09:32 #29068 | |
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derbybest
274 posts |
Further to Peters post as a tt writer i do make mistakes when writing the most common one is not clicking X train joins Y train and it then says NXXX instead of JXXXX and therefore throws up the error. However i now check every few trains and correct it as i go along. You may see somthing like this(example only) 1R67 is at a different location 0R01 got lost 1R01 not defined Hope this explains a little but thee above is just an example of a tt error which is easiely corrected Log in to reply |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 09:54 #29074 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
" said:When I analysed Lime Street's timetable using Tools 1 it returned no fewer than 235 warnings.Maxand, You are totally correct, 235 WARNINGS 1F03: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F10: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F11: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F12: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F13: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F14: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F15: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F16: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F17: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F18: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F19: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F20: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F22: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F23: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F24: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F25: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F26: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F27: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F28: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F29: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F30: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F31: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F32: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F33: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F34: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F35: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F36: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F37: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F38: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F39: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F40: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F41: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F42: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F43: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F44: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F45: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F46: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F47: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F48: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F49: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F50: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F51: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F52: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F53: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F54: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F55: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F57: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F59: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F60: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F611: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F612: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F62: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F63: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F64: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F65: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F66: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F67: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F68: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F69: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F70: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F71: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F72: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F73: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F74: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F901: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F902: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F911: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F912: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F921: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F922: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F931: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F932: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F941: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F942: Associated train BERF not defined 1F942: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F942: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working 1F951: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F952: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F952: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F96: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F97: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F98: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1F99: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R50: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R541: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R542: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R542: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R58: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R62: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R66: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R70: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R74: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R78: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R82: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R86: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R90: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R94: Final location should not have a departure time specified 1R98: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F011: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F012: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F031: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F031: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F032: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F05: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F061: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F07: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F09: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F09: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F211: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F212: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F213: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F214: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F231: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F232: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F233: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F233: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F234: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F234: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F251: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F252: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F253: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F254: Associated train BERF not defined 2F254: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working 2F271: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F272: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F273: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F291: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F292: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F293: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F311: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F312: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F313: Associated train BERTH not defined 2F313: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working 2F331: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F332: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F333: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F351: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F352: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F353: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F371: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F372: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F373: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F391: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F392: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F393: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F511: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F512: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F513: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F514: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F515: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F531: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F532: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F533: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F534: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F535: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F551: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F552: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F553: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F554: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F555: Associated train BERF not defined 2F555: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working 2F571: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F572: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F573: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F574: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F575: Associated train BERF not defined 2F575: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working 2F591: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F592: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F593: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F594: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F595: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F611: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F612: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F613: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F614: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F615: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F631: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F632: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F633: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F634: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F635: Associated train BERF not defined 2F635: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working 2F651: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F652: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F653: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F654: Associated train BERF not defined 2F654: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working 2F671: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F672: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F673: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F674: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F691: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F692: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F693: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F694: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F911: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F912: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F913: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F914: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F915: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F931: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F932: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F933: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F934: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F935: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F951: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F952: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F953: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F954: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F955: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F971: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F972: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F973: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F974: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F975: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F991: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F992: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F993: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F994: Final location should not have a departure time specified 2F995: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5F02: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5F461: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5F462: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5F541: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5F60: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5F631: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5F71: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5J20: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5M06: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5R11: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5R19: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5R27: Final location should not have a departure time specified 5S99: Associated train BERF not defined 5S99: Terminates at Neck Siding with no onward working Now, if you want me to eliminate 90% of those then I can, HOWEVER, it will make your life harder because each arrival will not show you what time it is booked to depart on it's next working, thus making it harder to replatform trains in times of disruption! It does NOT mean that the timetable a) has not been fully tested and b) the timetable will not work! " said: I think I speak for my partner in the TT writing, the Dev and his team of testers when I say that we are getting a little fed up of being critisied for something that we do in our spare time. " said:
Noisynoel Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Stephen Fulcher, welshdragon, delticfan, AndyG, DriverCurran, guidomcc, GoochyB, John, northroad, ExDistrictDriver, Sam Tugwell |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 10:00 #29078 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
i see no problem with ANY of those warnings. my oxted timetable (1993) showed up several warnings and still does, because i changed headcodes on a ballast train at lingfield, in order to slow it down to drop ballast - it was tested, works in practice, but still shows warnings. noel- theres never going to be 100% satisfaction at anything, despite the fact its free. take it from the forum, that, of all the people that have downloaded and played lime street, only one true error has come up which was an incorrect divide. the significant majority have thanked you, in essence, by being quiet as an aside max, why dont you have a crack at oxted, its a simple enough panel to work, and theres no complicated joins, splits etc involved. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: AndyG |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 10:19 #29082 | |
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derbybest
274 posts |
Also note that there is a difference between warnings and errors
Log in to reply |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 10:38 #29085 | |
onlydjw
456 posts |
Perhaps Clive or Geoff could comment as to whether the coding could be adjusted to remove the warnings of "Final location should not have a departure time specified" - although officially it should not, it is a very useful feature which is being adopted by many TT writers, and it is offputting when so many warnings are shown for such a useful idea!
God bless, Daniel Wilson Log in to reply |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 10:43 #29087 | |
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GoodbyeMrFish
148 posts |
At the end of the day its free, well donationware some sims have bugs but the fun part is working around them. Just like the real railway nothing is perfect. If you have paid 30 to 40 pound for this software, then i can understand posts like this. However you havent its free softare take it as is. I appreciate the time and effort put into these sims, and lime street is one of my favorites. Its small and easy to manage on your own. I dont actually know who devloped it, but a big thank you from me. I remember when swindidcot was released the first time it had a few bugs. But its nothing major that cant be sorted out by the user. And to this day its one of my favorite sims. Negative posts like this, nit picking at sims, is pathetic. Like has been said before. These sims are produced using the dev,s free spare time. Me being a father of 2 and working even i know how precious little time they must have. I bet alot of the developers have familys etc and other interests. Just be Gratefull For what is available and stop moaning. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: delticfan, Stephen Fulcher, derbybest, welshdragon |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 11:49 #29092 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
I think the question asked originally was a fair one as it does at first sight seem odd that so many warnings are reported and it's not always immediately obvious why they occurred. Also I don't think there is any explanation anywhere of what all the warnings (and for that matter errors where relevant) actually mean. The main warning that we have here is actually a recent addition one as there was a conscious decision very recently to flag these. As has been said in many cases they can be ignored, though maybe we a list. However, I agree that the knee-jerk jumping to conclusions that the author did not know what they were doing nor did the testers in not fixing it, needs to stop. Perhaps the well-tried "innocent until proven guilty" maxim should apply in future. Assume the thing is correct (or at least not a problem), ask the question as to why it's correct and what it means then if there is an mistake I'm sure the author will acknowledge the error and be grateful for you highlighting the issue in a constructive way then take steps to rectify. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: derbybest, jc92, John, AndyG, alan_s, Steamer |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 13:12 #29102 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks again for your feedback. I'm not critical of the sim - only found one glitch so far - but it really did puzzle me why so many warnings, so thanks for explaining. NoisyNoel said Quote: it will make your life harder because each arrival will not show you what time it is booked to depart on it's next working, thus making it harder to replatform trains in times of disruption!I get it now. The penny finally dropped. The real problem is that departure time for a new working train should have its own column, preferably to the right of the new working ID  That's a lot more intuitive. Trouble is, there isn't a departure time column for next working. I'd certainly support that, along with the choice to reduce font style and size from Courier 10 to a smaller, proportional font such as Arial or Verdana 9. Then truncated words such as REVE (for REVERSE) wouldn't be a problem any more. Last edited: 08/02/2012 at 13:16 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 13:40 #29105 | |
postal
5263 posts |
" said:Thanks again for your feedback. I'm not critical of the sim - only found one glitch so far - but it really did puzzle me why so many warnings, so thanks for explaining.Maxand I think you have the same genetic problem as I have in that the tact gene was omitted when the blueprint was followed. This posting probably just proves the point as far as my make-up is concerned! Sometimes things are written or said where you just totally miss the impact of what you are saying (particularly if you think you are writing from a basis of fact) - I know, because I do the same and it has got me into some awful embarrassments. When I try really hard I can sometimes avoid dropping clangers like that for a while, but eventually my guard slips and out comes the comment that to me in the instant is innocuous but to the listeners or readers is violently and unashamedly rude. I am sure that you have tried very hard over the last couple of weeks because there has been a marked reduction in the number of messages people have taken as inflammatory, but the original posting in this thread did come across as patronising and offensive even though that was not the intention. I know it doesn't always work, but I am sure a lot of the heat on the Forum could be dissipated while we manage to retain the light if you could try and re-read a posting from the reader's point of view before you press Submit. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 08/02/2012 at 18:19 by postal Log in to reply The following users said thank you: guidomcc, AndyG, onlydjw, Sam Tugwell, Steamer, maxand, ExDistrictDriver |
| Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 19:19 #29150 | |
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Hpotter
205 posts |
Maxand wrote: Quote: I get it now. The penny finally dropped. The real problem is that departure time for a new working train should have its own column, preferably to the right of the new working IDOk, can see the logic here so it would then be along the lines of the simplifiers, but the Dep/Pass time is in fact very easy to use.... 00:00 = Departure time 00/00 = passing time 00d00 = set down only time 00t00 = through line stop time. Last edited: 08/02/2012 at 19:20 by Hpotter Log in to reply |
| Re: 235 warnings 09/02/2012 at 17:43 #29214 | |
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GoochyB
222 posts |
" said:Maybe a simpler alternative to creating another field solely for use for departure time of next working, another code could be set up for the Dep/Pass field, i.e. 00n00 = next working departure time. If you wanted to get really clever then the timetable analyser could, when finding an entry in that field for the final location of a TT, check for the 'n' in the time, and check the time matches the Dep time of the N: service TT. In typing this I've realised that the TT analysis won't necessarily be that simple - add a Join into the mix and the possible permutations to check are multiplied upwards. Log in to reply |
| Re: 235 warnings 11/02/2012 at 02:49 #29282 | |
northroad
872 posts |
" said:Maxand, Probably a good idea for you young wipper snappers but steady on here. My 15.6" screen only allows me to see half of the vertical height on some sims and I have to scroll up and down to see what is going on at times. Not being able to read the text with my +3's would be a total disaster. Geoff Log in to reply |