Which route to take?

Sacro,

I agree with your interpretation of the routing quide, but National Rail Enquires quote both routes and London Midland are prepared to sell me a ticket and reserve seats on both routes.

...

If the train companies can't apply the rules correctly I don't think it is reasonable to expect their customers to!

Regards,

Peter.

Interestingly, the routing guide seems to claim that Derby-Blackburn via Leeds and Lancaster is a legitimate route - it gives maps MM (Derby-Huddersfield or Wakefield-Leeds-(Bradford)-Hellifield-Lancaster) and NC (Leeds-(Bradford)-Hellifield-Lancaster-Preston-Blackburn). Via Halifax isn't valid (not on map MM), forcing you to go the long way round!

Having now completed this journey, and having checked the routing guide, and having checked with EMT, XC, FTPE and Northern staff the route via Manchester and Preston is a permitted one and is the route I took

I used the MM+NC routing points, and bearing in mind I found out last night that I had to travel to Rishton, which is the next stop from Blackburn towards Colne

• EM + MH
  
• MM + NC
  
• NL + MH
  

• SY
  
• SY + WK
  
• SY + WY
  

" said:

I used the MM+NC routing points, and bearing in mind I found out last night that I had to travel to Rishton, which is the next stop from Blackburn towards Colne

Not sure how you have drawn the conclusion that those are the correct maps, however.

Valid Routes from Derby [DBY] to Rishton [RIS]:
[LIST=1]

Direct trains from Derby to Rishton

Shortest Route: 104.75 miles

Mapped Routes (subject to fares check):

DERBY GROUP - Blackburn: SOS ANYTIME S ◊ ANY PERMITTED CROSSCOUNTRY NO £52.50

• EM + MH
  
• MM + NC
  
• NL + MH
  

DERBY GROUP - HALIFAX GROUP: SOS ANYTIME S ◊ ANY PERMITTED EAST MIDLANDS TRAINS NO £49.50

• SY
  
• SY + WK
  
• SY + WY
  

DERBY GROUP - MANCHESTER GROUP: SOS ANYTIME S ◊ ANY PERMITTED EAST MIDLANDS TRAINS NO £35.00

• EM + MH
  
• EM + MS
  
• PS
  

[/LIST]

As you can see Rishton is as associated with three routing points, therefore we must use the "fare check" rule in order to determine the appropriate routing point. For ease I have added the Anytime Single (SOS) prices to the above information. As Derby - Manchester group is the cheapest fare we must use Manchester group as our destination routing point.

Therefore the only maps appropriate to use are the ones which I have highlighted in red. Maps MM + NC do not come into the equation I'm afraid.

I would say that doesn't fit the criteria for a permitted route in that it is not a reasonable route to take

One that is not going massively out of the way or in the wrong direction

Ok, give this some food for thought.

Now, myself and around twenty others, make it to Inverness on day one without any members of staff batting an eyelid, on day two the East Coast guard informed one of us that he would be removed from the train somewhere between Inverness and Stirling (I can't remember where), when he found the rest of us taking up the majority of coach M, he got an off duty constaple from the BTP involved.

Now you tell me Baldock - North Sheen is actually valid via Inverness? I mean really? Did having our tickets checked by the first two guards on day one, and them allowing us to travel imply it was valid?

Webtis (the software powering the LM website) isn't a 'train company', and it is known for it to have occasional bugs.

There's also the issue that there's two Routing Guides, the PDF one that we consulted above, and an electronic one that powers the websites, the two are known to differ.

I can't imagine London Midland would care much about this journey, Virgin Trains however may flag this ticket being used on their services though.

As you can see Rishton is as associated with three routing points, therefore we must use the "fare check" rule in order to determine the appropriate routing point.

For ease I have added the Anytime Single (SOS) prices to the above information. As Derby - Manchester group is the cheapest fare we must use Manchester group as our destination routing point.

" said:

As you can see Rishton is as associated with three routing points, therefore we must use the "fare check" rule in order to determine the appropriate routing point.

Correct.

Quote:

For ease I have added the Anytime Single (SOS) prices to the above information. As Derby - Manchester group is the cheapest fare we must use Manchester group as our destination routing point.

Wrong. You can use any routeing point where the fare isn't more than that to your destination. The fare to Rishton is £52.50, so you can use any of the three routeing points.

You still have to obey the "no doubling back" rule.

Looking at the maps, the route via Leeds, Hellifield, Lancaster, Preston, and Blackburn is therefore valid.

" said:

" said:

As you can see Rishton is as associated with three routing points, therefore we must use the "fare check" rule in order to determine the appropriate routing point.

Correct.

Quote:

For ease I have added the Anytime Single (SOS) prices to the above information. As Derby - Manchester group is the cheapest fare we must use Manchester group as our destination routing point.

Wrong. You can use any routeing point where the fare isn't more than that to your destination. The fare to Rishton is £52.50, so you can use any of the three routeing points.

You still have to obey the "no doubling back" rule.

Looking at the maps, the route via Leeds, Hellifield, Lancaster, Preston, and Blackburn is therefore valid.

It would help if I'd have looked up Derby - Rishton, instead of a different fare, you are quite correct that all three routing points pass the fare check rule, however none of the maps allow Crewe - Preston direct.