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| Creating Simulators 06/12/2009 at 17:27 #358 | |
Hunterlaar
5 posts |
Hi...Long time fan on SimSig, played most of the simulations many a time! I was just on the train home today and was thinking about wether it was possible to create a simulation of your own and how you would go about it. I'd love to be able to create some sims for the community if shown how! Cheers H Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 06/12/2009 at 17:27 #4865 | |
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Hunterlaar
5 posts |
Hi...Long time fan on SimSig, played most of the simulations many a time! I was just on the train home today and was thinking about wether it was possible to create a simulation of your own and how you would go about it. I'd love to be able to create some sims for the community if shown how! Cheers H Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 06/12/2009 at 18:07 #4869 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
Best to read: http://SimSig.co.uk/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=developertrack Sorry. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 06/12/2009 at 19:13 #4871 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
Hunterlaar, Having said that, if you have the necessary information on which a Sim can be built and are willing to share it with us then there that would be great. If and when there was development capacity to build it there would be no reason why you could not be involved in some aspects of its constuction. Information required includes- panel photographs, TC lengths,and signal information for a start. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 07/12/2009 at 23:36 #4897 | |
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Hunterlaar
5 posts |
Thats a bit weak. I was hoping there was something where you could just create a casual simulator for yourself...hell even a fictional one? Guess not? Cheers anyway fellas. Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 08/12/2009 at 09:01 #4902 | |
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GoochyB
222 posts |
Hunterlaar said:Thats a bit weak.It's not really weak, it ensures that there is control over what is being done and particularly over the quality and accuracy of the sims. At the end of the day it's Geoff's program & code and it is up to him how he manages it and who he allows to use it. And of course it's free so we are incredibly grateful for all that we do get. Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 08/12/2009 at 09:02 #4903 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
Hunterlaar said:Thats a bit weak.What do you mean by that? SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 08/12/2009 at 13:20 #4917 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
I can see why Geoff's response wasn't what you where looking for, But the reasons why user's can't create their own sims are straightforward. A developer needs to have a pretty good understanding of how real signalling works in terms of things like subroutes, flank protection, aspect sequencing etc. Also there can be a fair bit of bespoke software code which can be hard to support and maintain, especially if you run into problems and need someone else to fix. If a developer releases a buggy simulation it tends to look very bad. It takes a very long time to produce a SIMSIG from start to finish and requires a lot of dedication if something realistic is desired. A large powerbox might take well over a year to do properly, and also require seemingly endless fixes and testing by third parties. The upshot of this is that if someone announces they are doing a simulation and then gives up, it prevents someone else who could have written the simulation to doing a better job. A developer would require the source code which is something that can't be given out freely. Not trying to sound like I'm having a go, but the best way to get a foot in the door developing is to start helping out with the beta testing or co authoring with an established developer and taking it from there. Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 08/12/2009 at 22:08 #4929 | |
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Hunterlaar
5 posts |
Didn't mean to come across in a bad way. Just most top simulators have a user-creation tool. Obviosuly with this being free and basically one mans simulator its different. The amount of new simulations is very slow and even if the quality would dip you could always have an unofficial section to the site? Thanks anyways guys I was just looking for a project, thats all x Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 08/12/2009 at 23:45 #4933 | |
postal
5265 posts |
Huntelaar As I read this thread so far, people have tried to explain nicely why and how it is very difficult to create a new simulation in the SimSig format. There are all sorts of issues about firstly the base data, secondly the custom code required to fit this base data into the required format and thirdly the integrity of the core code if any Thomas, Richard or Harold is allowed to play with it. My understanding of your comments is that you want to create a simulation of an area you know within the SimSig format because you are frustrated about the speed that new simulations are produced by the volunteers who have the knowledge and capability to produce such simulations to the quality that public release demands. That release rides on the back of thousands (and I use the word advisedly) of hours of user tests which take place before a simulation is authorised for release. Just because "most top simulators have a user-creation tool" doesn't mean that it is obligatory for something as complicated as SimSig to have one. For the user, SimSig is driven by the simulations that are issued, not by the core code which drives those simulations. Even though you don't mean to come across in a bad way, each post you have made in this thread has contained some comment critical of the small number of developers and larger number of testers who create the simulations from which we all take so much pleasure. Can I please suggest that you throw away your shovel before the hole gets any deeper. JG “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 09/12/2009 at 11:03 #4937 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
Let me make this clear - the lack of a method for users to create their own simulations is purely a policy decision. While at present there are technical issues about creating sims and needing bespoke code, it would be relatively simple to remove 99% of these cases and allow them to be handled in the simulation description language; at this point you'd have a development kit that could be used by anyone. It would also be practical for someone to write a complete "how to write a simulation" manual. However, it is Geoff's policy decision (and I support him on this) not to go down that route. Rather, new developers need to be trained and need to understand many of the underlying isues. Find any simulation where SimSig and someone else both cover the same area. Every time I've found such a case, the SimSig one has been far superior. Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 09/12/2009 at 11:40 #4938 | |
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caedave
142 posts |
Well said Clive. Yes. All of us would like to be able to do a sim of our choice. Well there's nothing to stop you except Time and ability. SimSig has a set of rules and standards that the team stick to, and it is through those that we get the wonderful and consistent Sims we do. Some of these Rules and Standards are laid out in the "Developer" section of the Wiki and which I strongly recommend everyone to have a read, they give just a hint of the background knowledge that is required. Dave M Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 09/12/2009 at 12:05 #4939 | |
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GoochyB
222 posts |
Yes, well put Clive. As has been pointed out repeatedly, it comes down to issues of quality and accuracy, in which SimSig beats all other sims hands down (at least in the opinion of most people here!). I should have emphasised those words more in my earlier post! Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 09/12/2009 at 13:58 #4941 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts |
Hunterlaar If you want to have a different simulation, or even a fictional one, why not try creating a new timetable for an existing Sim ? That is the user-creation option in Simsig, and several other simulators. Bill Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 09/12/2009 at 22:30 #4951 | |
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Hunterlaar
5 posts |
I guess that is a good point Bill... I am sorry if I came across negative, all of the effort gone into the sims is much appreciated. It is just I am in the Royal Navy and could use a massive project to take up my time in the evenings. My main problem is I dont really have a massive understanding of signals, I just wanted to create a little route with my own timetable. If anyone is looking for help with a route I certainly don't mind helping anyway! Log in to reply |
| Creating Simulators 10/12/2009 at 08:35 #4958 | |
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caedave
142 posts |
Hunterlaar. A web search for "DCC" should throw up a few freebee's that will let you do this. They are intended for there DCC systems, but some will support an on screen test. Learning about Signalling, well that's really down to reading time, I'm sure there are members of this group who can give some recommendations. Another option is a freebee called SigSribe from MODRATEC. This is used to generate the Logic Tables they use for there Model Mechanical Interlocking Frames and has some good information in there "HELP" file and (though no actual trains) a good on screen sim of what signals/routes can be set as you define the interlocking. Dave M. Log in to reply |