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| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 11/11/2013 at 23:48 #51385 | |
paul87101
67 posts |
Hi, In case some people are not aware, I have just found more live signalling diagrams (I was only aware of those at Opentraintimes previously) at http://www.railcam.org.uk/supporters/xoops_diagraminfo.php for supporters. I hope this is of interest to somebody Paul Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Copping, David Russon, 58050 |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 12/11/2013 at 08:57 #51395 | |
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welwyn
15 posts |
and also found this one too for SWT http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/maps/areas/swml/4 Log in to reply The following users said thank you: jetblast787, paul87101 |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 12/11/2013 at 13:02 #51410 | |
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jetblast787
62 posts |
Interesting; Anymore on realtime trains? Would like to see one for the Portsmouth direct line
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| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 12/11/2013 at 15:59 #51421 | |
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Class 92
359 posts |
" said:and also found this one too for SWTHow did you find that? Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 12/11/2013 at 17:13 #51428 | |
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Louis
32 posts |
Just this: www.realtimetrains.co.uk/maps/areas/mml/4 My intention is to go further north to Sheffield and into Nottingham. Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 12/11/2013 at 20:44 #51447 | |
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welwyn
15 posts |
I found it in a railway forum thread somewhere...couldnt find much other than SWT on the site though
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| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 12/11/2013 at 21:20 #51449 | |
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Class 92
359 posts |
There doesn't appear to be any ways of getting to it from the homepage or anything only through the links is it meant to be public?
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| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 12/11/2013 at 22:13 #51453 | |
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Louis
32 posts |
" said:There doesn't appear to be any ways of getting to it from the homepage or anything only through the links is it meant to be public?There is no plan to link it on the website, it is just being done on a link only basis for areas of the site owner and contributers interest. Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 11:47 #51515 | |
JohnMiller
321 posts |
I singed up to the RailCam Live Signaling Diagrams site at http://www.railcam.org.uk/supporters/xoops_diagraminfo.php a good few days ago but heard Nowt since, so beware
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| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 14:47 #51529 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2078 posts |
I am still confused by the obsession that these sites have with jumbling out the freight headcodes. The way I see it, as Network Rail provide them, there cannot be an issue with people using them. If there were then there would be an obligation on the part of Network Rail not to provide them. Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 14:52 #51531 | |
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Zoe
252 posts |
" said:I am still confused by the obsession that these sites have with jumbling out the freight headcodes. Network Rail do not provide real reporting numbers for non-passneger trains in the live data as this is considered to be commercially sensitive information. Originally no non-passenger train information was provided but this was then changed to anonymized information. The reporting numbers are anonymized by Network Rail and not by the sites in question. I use the data direclty from Network Rail and what I get is the same as what you will see on any of the websites. Last edited: 14/11/2013 at 14:54 by Zoe Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 14:55 #51532 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2078 posts |
I see. I was under the impression that they were randomised at the end after all the confusion with Opentraintimes and SWlines providing them and then all of a sudden not. Seems strange that it would be commercially sensitive, but nothing surprises me with NR. Last edited: 14/11/2013 at 14:55 by Stephen Fulcher Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 14:59 #51533 | |
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Zoe
252 posts |
" said:Seems strange that it would be commercially sensitive, but nothing surprises me with NR. I'm not sure it was NR as much as the freight companies not wanting the live running information made available to rivals like road haulage companies. The current situation is certainly an improvemnt on the previous one when messages for non-passenger trains were just filtered out and if a train was taking a long time to step between berths you would have no way of knowing if there was a freight train in front. Last edited: 14/11/2013 at 15:08 by Zoe Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 15:01 #51535 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:" said:Although it's still a bit daft when you see where some of the trains are going from or to. Liverpool Coal Pad 1 EWS - Aberthaw Power Station, hmmm I wonder what that trains is carrying *strokes chin* (Made up example but you get the point)Seems strange that it would be commercially sensitive, but nothing surprises me with NR. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Last edited: 14/11/2013 at 15:02 by headshot119 Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 15:01 #51536 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2078 posts |
Ironically, the schedule would probably be of more use than the headcode, which is probably of little interest outside of the industry and its enthusiasts. I wonder how much of it has to do with the freight companies providing such information to companies who sell it to enthusiasts? Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 16:14 #51539 | |
Temple Meads
307 posts |
" said:I wonder how much of it has to do with the freight companies providing such information to companies who sell it to enthusiasts?Do those companies get the details from the operators though, or from Network Rail? Username TIM in multiplayer Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 18:35 #51540 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
Given that headcodes are scrambled identically on different sites, you'd be hard pressed to argue it's anywhere but the source! The train type character (class 2, 5, 6, 7...) is preserved, but the remaining three digits are (I suspect) randomised based on the departure time of the train. Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 18:40 #51541 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:...randomised based on the departure time of the train.No, they're sequential. Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 19:46 #51543 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:" said:As in each random ID is entered sequentially - e.g. 6Z00, 4Z00 and 3Z00 departing in order would become 600A, 401A and 302A?...randomised based on the departure time of the train.No, they're sequential. (There must be something else to it, as I've seen 675X for a train departing 40 minutes before 657X, and an hour before 663X...) Last edited: 14/11/2013 at 19:49 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 20:46 #51547 | |
Simdmuk
155 posts |
Originally head codes were not randomised,but after "complaints" this changed.Some say it was rail tour companies,some the FOC's.The real reason seems to be hidden. The argument about road haulage doesn't add up.A head code is pretty meaningless to most outside the rail industry.Even those with knowledge,the headcode dosent give much away.Network Rail themselves publish on line,the WTT which gives full head code information (yes I know its the WTT but it still could give alot away).As Head shot says there's more "sensitive" information in the publicly available schedule information on RTT for example than anything else !. Many believe this is more to do with money. There is a certain well known web site that provides exactly what RTT provides WITH the head codes for a small annual fee.What's to stop a road haulier paying the fee and getting the head codes ? Doesn't make sense ,other then at least two well known providers of freight information for enthusiasts going down the tubes if the head code info was made free. Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 20:58 #51551 | |
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Zoe
252 posts |
" said:Originally head codes were not randomised,but after "complaints" this changed.Some say it was rail tour companies,some the FOC's.The real reason seems to be hidden. Unanonymized reporting numbers for non-passenger trains have never been available in the live data provided by Network Rail. There were some sites which provided timetables including freight services but this was before the live train movement/train describer data was made available by NR and freight services were soon completely removed from these sites. When the live data was released last year by NR, only information for classes 1, 2 and 9 was provided in the train describer data with class 5 available only in the train movement feed. This was possible as trains in this feed could be filtered by TOC and so any class 5s not operated by a TOC (I believe there was/is at least one) were not included. It then changed this year so that that non-passenger trains would be made available with anonymized reporting numbers and the sites in question then reinstated freight times. The anonymized reporting numbers are only used in the live train movmenet/train descriebr data, the schedules just have the reporting number and category completely removed. As I said above, the anonymization is actually an improvement on the previous situation where no live information on non-passenger trains was provided at all. Last edited: 14/11/2013 at 21:29 by Zoe Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 21:31 #51556 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
Class 3 and Class 5s are reported with real numbers. Actually, on a slightly different tack - having joined the ranks of Twitter I found there was a feed that likes to report FCC's cancelled and delayed trains throughout the day. I did some investigating via RTT site and found it was including ECS workings in the stats which (as I said to them) was slightly disingenuous (though the point was ignored). Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 14/11/2013 at 21:37 #51557 | |
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Zoe
252 posts |
" said:Class 3 and Class 5s are reported with real numbers. This should only be the case for trains run by passenger companies. In the rare event of a Class 3 or Class 5 train operated by a non-passenger company then these should be anonymzed. Even a non-passenger company running a train under class 1 should be anonymized. Last edited: 14/11/2013 at 22:03 by Zoe Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 15/11/2013 at 03:25 #51562 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:" said:Even then, things such as driver training/extra moves between depots have randomised headcodes - for example, moves between Cricklewood and Hornsey, which presumably are done by FCC staff, are randomised. Class 3s not being passenger are also hardly "rare" - RHTTs, for example.Class 3 and Class 5s are reported with real numbers. There are even passenger-carrying trains that are randomised, such as the VSOE trains, even though they are in the passenger WTT! I expect that other charter trains would be similarly affected, but I've yet to come across any of those. There's also the separate "FRGT" headcode given to some trains, but quite what the criteria for that are, I'm not sure. Quote: The anonymized reporting numbers are only used in the live train movmenet/train descriebr data, the schedules just have the [...] category completely removed.Do you mean the class, or the destination code? Only the latter is removed. Last edited: 15/11/2013 at 03:26 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| Live Signaling Diagrams at railcam.org.uk 15/11/2013 at 09:08 #51566 | |
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swlines
3 posts |
" said:" said:" said:Even then, things such as driver training/extra moves between depots have randomised headcodes - for example, moves between Cricklewood and Hornsey, which presumably are done by FCC staff, are randomised. Class 3s not being passenger are also hardly "rare" - RHTTs, for example.Class 3 and Class 5s are reported with real numbers. Any train marked as being operated by a freight operator is anonymised. If a working is operated by a passenger operator, it is not anonymised. It has nothing to do with what the train actually does/is carrying. Quote: There's also the separate "FRGT" headcode given to some trains, but quite what the criteria for that are, I'm not sure. Realtime Trains uses the criteria of if the service is operated by ATOC code ZZ then it received a FRGT identity until a time that it receives an anonymised identity from one of the realtime feeds. Quote: Do you mean the class, or the destination code? Only the latter is removed. Two bits of information are removed from anonymised services. These are the train identity (i.e. 3Z01 for example) and the train category (which identifies what it does, e.g. XU for unadvertised express). Log in to reply |