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| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 23/11/2013 at 18:02 #51917 | |
Dullskunk
25 posts |
Hi everyone Maybe one of you have already run the full 1984 timetable for Central Scotland. My problem is for the train 6K84 at 4:25. Starting at greenhill lower JN UGL, it must reverse at greenhill lower REV and go toward Lenzie. But when going toward lenzie it stops and reverse at GJ419 signal even if I ask it to shunt forward. Thanks Log in to reply |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 23/11/2013 at 19:12 #51919 | |
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sloppyjag
480 posts |
Up to 7am with this TT and didn't have any issues with 6K84. My best guess would be that the timetable didn't step properly and thinks it's back at Greenhill Lower DGL. Open train list (F2), right click on 6K84, select Timetable Options -> Edit Timetable, click on Location List, click on Greenhill Upper Jn then click Set current/next location and then OK. Check it's facing the right direction and then it should be on it's way. Planotransitophobic! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Dullskunk |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 23/11/2013 at 19:46 #51920 | |
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Dullskunk
25 posts |
Thank you Sloppyjag for your very quick message, I'm going to try it right now. It's a very intersting timetable and I prefer it to the original 2006 one.
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| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 23/11/2013 at 20:50 #51922 | |
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Dullskunk
25 posts |
The only way I found it to work was to reedit the timetable and make 6k84 pass and not stop at greenhill upper Jn in its way to Lenzie. Thanks again Sloppyjag Log in to reply |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 24/11/2013 at 19:08 #51957 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts |
Definite gremlin, not seen in testing. Not sure why it thinks GJ419 is Greenhill Upper Jn, but once it stops there it reverses. It had done all the right movements and timetable steps. Could be due to the change of up & down there. As it works if the Greenhill Upper Jn time is a pass (not a stop), then perhaps therefore also OK if late. Glad you like the timetable Bill Log in to reply |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 25/11/2013 at 20:37 #52000 | |
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Dullskunk
25 posts |
thanks bill. are you the editor of this timetable? Nevertherless, yes it's interesting because trains come from and go nearly everywhere and there'ar lots of joining and dividing. the 2006 timetable is a good one but a bit repetitive at times athough a bit hard too. Log in to reply |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 25/11/2013 at 23:18 #52006 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts |
Yes, this is one of mine. Certainly a feature of the 80's that there was much less clockface working especially on the longer distances. Had a Motorail yet ? regards Bill Log in to reply |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 26/11/2013 at 06:02 #52010 | |
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Dullskunk
25 posts |
Hi Bill What do you mean by motorail, excuse me of my ignorance, If you mean Stirling passenger services with diesel locos, I've only reached 5H17, everyone's at the station I have 1P02(class 47 hauled) ready to depart at 5h48 and 5 DMUs between 6h16 and 10H12. I'm always trying to do a good job with SimSig, so sometimes I go back earlier to do better. But sorry I'm yet in perfect mode for your timetable ;-) Thank you for your good job Log in to reply |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 26/11/2013 at 10:18 #52020 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
Motorail is a now obsolete method of train working in the UK which began in the early 60s and finally died out around 2005 (can someone verify that?). passengers travel in coaching stock as normal, but are able to bring their cars with them on flatbed wagons, or vans which trail or lead the main train. some can be very long, as many as 14 or 15 vehicles in some cases. cars are loaded and unloaded at designated locations for passengers to pick up and continue driving. Stirling was one of the main, if not the main Motorail terminal in scotland, while Kensington Olympia Served London "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 26/11/2013 at 11:26 #52021 | |
Meld
1111 posts |
" said:Holloway served the Kings Cross Motorails 
Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 26/11/2013 at 11:43 #52022 | |
northroad
872 posts |
I believe the Motorail branding was started around 1966 but previous to that I remember The Anglo Scottish Car Carrier service which started in 1955. Running from Perth to London and London to Perth it used to go through Darlington around lunch time. It was obviously steam hauled in the early days but I only ever saw a Deltic or a type 40 around the early to mid sixties. The Motorail service was resurrected by FGW around 1999 between Paddington and Penzance and was part of the Night Riviera. It proved a great success but within two years the price had doubled and people lost interest. It ceased in 2005 I think. Geoff Log in to reply |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 26/11/2013 at 20:32 #52039 | |
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Dullskunk
25 posts |
Thanks everyone for your Historical accounts. I'm going to look on the web to find some motorail pics. I love trains, I use nearly all computer soft that exist on the subject (zd simulator, run8, pc rail, signalsoft, train director,train dispatcher, zusi II) but actually I'm learning about everyday because I don't know much about. I'm only a little truck driver. Simsig is addictive, it's kind of a game that is hard to leave when you start playing, because you always think "Oh sh_t!" this train is going to be late...
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| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 27/11/2013 at 15:46 #52065 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
" said:Motorail is a now obsolete method of train working in the UK which began in the early 60s and finally died out around 2005 (can someone verify that?). I'm a little hazy on the early history but, by the end of the 1970s, Motorail had two main groups of services. The 'tail traffic' ran all year round, with modified GUVs attached to the regular sleeping car trains from Kings X and Euston (possibly Paddington as well?). That's about all I know of it. Then there was the summer season traffic that, as Joe says, used Kensington (Olympia) as its London terminal. I believe Kensington had been selected as a major parcels terminal and a 4-platform complex with a substantial covered circulating area had been built at the north west corner of the station (sometime in the early '60s, I think). It didn't last long in parcels service but made an ideal Motorail terminal. Moreover, the layout & signalling at Kensington had been modified so it could be used as a terminal for sleeping car trains while Euston was being rebuilt from about 1963 - 65, therefore there were facilities for shunting, attachng & detaching. From Kensington, services in 1979 ran to St Austell (75mph daytime train with a Newton Abbot portion), Inverness & Stirling (75mph sleepers) and Perth (90mph daytime train). I believe the Perth carried a Carlisle portion at one point; I don't think it did by 1981 (the last year Kensington was used for Motorail) but I may be wrong - it's a long time ago now & my brain cell ain't what it was! The St Austell didn't run in 1981; I'm not sure whether it lasted through 1980 or not. Standard train formation was 8 coaches (BR Mk I, either sleepers or compartment stock) and 12 carflats; the 75mph trains were vacuum braked and could use flats with TOPS code FVV, whereas the Perth was air braked and used FVXs (i.e. dual braked). I have an idea one of the night trains actually used FVXs so, once they were unloaded in the morning, they could immediately be reloaded rather than having to be shunted out and another set shunted in. The working could be fascinating. A class 25 was provided as station pilot at Kensington and a pair of 25s to haul trains to & from Mitre Bridge Junction, where the change was made to electric traction. In the up direction, the incoming train would arrive at the (reversible) down platform at Kensington. The station pilot would be brought on to the rear and would then draw the flats back and shunt them into 2 of the 4 Motorail bays - 10 vehicles in one side and the remaining 2 in t'other. The cars would be facing forward, all ready for their owners to drive them off pretty much as soon as they'd alighted from the train. Meanwhile the train engines would run round and haul the stock off to Willesden Carriage Shed. There were special shunting bell codes between the boxes at Kensington, quite apart from permissive working on the middle roads and reversible working of some description on all four through lines, while North Main box had facing point locks absolutely everywhere - it was legitimate to shunt trains conveying passengers just about anywhere a move existed, with or without a signal! In the morning the Stirling was the first train to arrive. Once the stock was cleared the platform would be needed for the 'Kensington Belle', as we called the train that brought a handful of office workers from Clapham Junction (and then ran back empty & did the same again). As the overnight trains were none-too punctual at times, you will appreciate we often had to do some rather smart shunting moves to get that lot sorted out - quite apart from the procession of engines going to Willesden & Acton to pick up freight for the Southern (no wonder Kensington acquired the nickname of Stop'em Junction). After the Inverness arrived (and the second trip of the Kenny Belle), the engines would bring the stock down for the Perth; having run round it they would propel it back on to the 2 carflats. By now the 10 flats in the adjacent platform were being loaded. Once loading was complete and the train despatched (horrible modern term), the leading half of the train (locos, 8 coaches & 2 flats) would draw forward then shunt back on to the 10 flats. This, of course, meant using Kensington North Main's notorious 35 points, the installation of the devil and cause of many an outbreak of unparliamentary language. After the two halves of the train had been coupled, the brake test would be carried out before it finally went on its way to Mitre Bridge and the engine change. (I suspect the Motorail was the only passenger train - perhaps the only train of any kind - that departed before the brake test was carried out.) In the evening the process was - broadly - reversed. The Inverness stock was brought down first and, while the train was being loaded, the locos went back to Willesden Carriage to bring the Stirling stock. I remember one occasion when they were heavily delayed for some reason - and no-one, not even Willesden Powerbox, seemed to know what on earth was happening. I think the pilot driver was Ron Aldridge, of whom many tales are told but always willing to sort the job out. So I decided to act as guard up to Mitre Bridge (I was Kensington Supervisor at the time) and we put the single cl25 on the train. The shunt was OK of course, and Ron gave it plenty of Wellie once we got away in an attempt to get a bit of speed up before we hit the climb, but by the time we passed North Pole Junction I reckon we were down to walking pace with the 'rat' flat out. We did get there though, passing the (rather surprised) driver bringing the Stirling stock down just as we passed over the GWR Main Line. Happy days! It was financial nonsense, of course. It barely covered its costs even after it ran electric-hauled all the way from Euston. By the time you added 3 X cl25 and two shifts of car handling and shunting staff, the operating ratio was stupid-to-one. So after the 1981 season the Kensington terminal closed, followed in short order by North Main box. Still, 'twas fun while it lasted. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: dwelham313, broodje, Steamer, AndyG |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 27/11/2013 at 20:27 #52077 | |
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Dullskunk
25 posts |
It seems you're not so hazy and your brain cells work fairly well. Thanks for your very detailed and exciting notes.
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| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 27/11/2013 at 20:39 #52078 | |
postal
5264 posts |
" said:From Kensington, services in 1979 ran to St Austell (75mph daytime train with a Newton Abbot portion), Inverness & Stirling (75mph sleepers) and Perth (90mph daytime train). I believe the Perth carried a Carlisle portion at one point; I don't think it did by 1981 (the last year Kensington was used for Motorail) but I may be wrong - it's a long time ago now & my brain cell ain't what it was! The St Austell didn't run in 1981; I'm not sure whether it lasted through 1980 or not.Keith Pascal's 1979-1980 Carlisle TT (taken from contemporaneous documentation) lists a daytime Perth - Olympia Motorail picking up a portion at Carlisle with the reverse portion making a reciprocal drop. The TT also includes Motorail services to/from other parts like Stirling to/from Dover or Newton Abbot and Inverness to/from Crewe as well as a diverted York - Inverness. It was quite a network in its heyday. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 28/11/2013 at 12:33 #52103 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
" said:" said:From Kensington, services in 1979 ran to St Austell (75mph daytime train with a Newton Abbot portion), Inverness & Stirling (75mph sleepers) and Perth (90mph daytime train). I believe the Perth carried a Carlisle portion at one point; I don't think it did by 1981 (the last year Kensington was used for Motorail) but I may be wrong - it's a long time ago now & my brain cell ain't what it was! The St Austell didn't run in 1981; I'm not sure whether it lasted through 1980 or not.Keith Thanks John, I knew someone would be able to fill in a bit. In '79 I handled Motorails as a signalman (West London Line Relief, so I saw them at the Kensington boxes and at North Pole) but I took no notice at all of portions - so long as I saw it pass with tail lamp that was good enough. It wasn't until '81 that I was Movements Supervisor at Kensington (I had the temporary summer job that year, launching pad for many supervisory careers, alongside the regular men - Maurice Gough and Charlie Brown, neither of whom is with us any more). It may well have been that there was still a Carlisle portion on the Perth but I don't recall it. What I do recall is that the Perth was the target of vandals just about every day that summer, arriving with at least half a dozen broken windscreens every day. In the end extreme measures had to be resorted to even to find where it was happening - the Motorail Manager (Mark Causebrook, later MD of Thameslink and of Central Trains but then in his first job after the training scheme) rode the train with the rearmost corridor connection open so he could see where it was when the windscreens started going. It turned out to be around Hillmorton, I recall, whereupon the BT Police were able to take some very satisfactory action. You're right about the Stirling - Dover; in fact it was Dover and Brockenhurst, with some very complicated shunting at Kensington in the middle of the night, to ensure that the passengers ended up with the right set of carflats at their destination. I don't recall the headcodes any more but I suspect the Dover ran with the same headcode all through while the Brockenhurst portion got a separate headcode to & from Kensington. The Motorail business was not in the least centralised, so we at Kensington knew almost nothing of the other services that ran around the country. (I don't suppose that made it any more efficient either. Though ths was the era before computers so central administration probably wouldn't have been an option in any case.) Log in to reply |
| Central Scotland with 1984 timetable ver.1 problem 29/11/2013 at 00:11 #52134 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts |
A few images that I found in researching Stirling, not all relevant to the 84 timetable though: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cessna152towser/2348644262/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/d1059/5560948825/ http://80srail.zenfolio.com/p904823333/h32d0e7ea#h32d0e7ea http://www.flickr.com/photos/johndedman/8863101647/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/auchlander/7099309471/ Bill Log in to reply The following user said thank you: BarryM |