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| Rerouting trains? 27/12/2013 at 12:20 #53258 | |
jsiren
6 posts |
Hello, this may be a stupid question that has an obvious answer, but here goes. If the Badminton line is completely blocked after Wootton Basset Junction, is there a way to reroute trains going toward Bristol over the main line? Is that even physically possible? Are there limiting factors (such as electrification or lack thereof)? How about vice versa? (Route main line trains to Bristol over Badminton line.) It happened in one simulation that one particular track circuit failed at Wootton Bassett Junction, specifically the one across the diamond, conveniently blocking all the points so that no routes could be set to the Badminton line, only to the main line. I solved the problem with some cunning use of F11 (freed the failed circuit enough to release the points, then put it under engineering possession :whistle: to keep some challenge). I was playing the 1979 timetable. cheers, JS Log in to reply |
| Rerouting trains? 27/12/2013 at 13:09 #53259 | |
Steamer
3984 posts |
Trains to Bristol can go either way if necessary- they'll lose time, and may be delayed at Westerleigh/Bathampton junctions, but they'll end up in the right place. Take a look at the Western Region map to see where everything joins up. Electrification won't arrive in that part of the world for a year or two yet, so that's no problem, and (depending on how realistic you want to be) drivers will probably sign both routes. EDIT: In SimSig, if you attempt to send a Badminton train via Chippenham, or vice/versa, the train will ring in stating 'Wrong Route Set'. You'll need to edit the train's timetable via F2 and change the locations, or tell the driver to abandon the timetable. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 27/12/2013 at 13:17 by Steamer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jsiren |
| Rerouting trains? 27/12/2013 at 14:02 #53260 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:Hello, None of the lines are electrified and the only limiting factors in real life are the routes around Bristol. Without digging out an atlas I think it's possible on Bristol to route any train for Paddington from anywhere via either line (and vv), it's just the timing that will obviously be out. The Sim has no automatic provision to divert Up train between entry points, you will need to fiddle with the timetables before the train enters. Down trains you can do what you like with. " said: That's why I'd like to inhibit the use of f11 on my Sims - but I can't. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jsiren |
| Rerouting trains? 27/12/2013 at 17:05 #53264 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
What's wrong with the F11 menu? Used responsibly, it crudely simulates the S&T technician carrying out a release of controls - an approved means of getting the job moving under certain circumstances.
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| Rerouting trains? 27/12/2013 at 17:34 #53267 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:Want to get rid of failure settings too, so that people can't turn them off? Log in to reply |
| Rerouting trains? 27/12/2013 at 17:44 #53269 | |
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jsiren
6 posts |
" said:What's wrong with the F11 menu? Used responsibly, it crudely simulates the S&T technician carrying out a release of controls - an approved means of getting the job moving under certain circumstances.That's in fact how I reasoned it. Log in to reply |
| Rerouting trains? 27/12/2013 at 18:00 #53276 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
In my 3.5 years in signal boxes, I have never seen a "Release of Signalling Controls" carried out. It takes too long to restrict the equipment in the correct way, time in which staff could spend trying to fix the fault. With a track circuit failure over a set of points, I have seen the first staff on site able to wind the points to the required position, whilst the signal box has no detection, confirms the points have been secured in the required position, and then trains talked past the protecting signal at danger. Of course figuring out how long it would take for the MOM[sup]1[/sup] (or other incident response staff) to turn up is another matter entirely! ([sup]1[/sup]Mobile Operations Manager) Last edited: 27/12/2013 at 18:00 by mfcooper Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jsiren |
| Rerouting trains? 27/12/2013 at 18:08 #53280 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
Indeed, a release of controls is a rare event - simulating points being wound by hand also requires access to F11 though!
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| Rerouting trains? 27/12/2013 at 18:13 #53281 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
" said:Indeed, a release of controls is a rare event - simulating points being wound by hand also requires access to F11 though!Indeed. But just clearing the Track Circuit and getting full detection on the points concerned is unrealistic. I think any Inhibition would have to be decreed by the User/Host. Finding a way for points to display out-of-correspondence but having pretended to be a track worker securing these and allowing trains to pass over them would be an amazing addition :-) Log in to reply |
| Rerouting trains? 29/12/2013 at 21:05 #53400 | |
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Hawk777
386 posts |
Isn’t that what the F11 points menu options for hand cranking do? If I remember correctly, points locked by a TCF but hand-cranked to the opposite position sit there blinking on the panel; is there something more that ought to happen?
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| Rerouting trains? 29/12/2013 at 21:50 #53403 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
" said:" said:Indeed, a release of controls is a rare event - simulating points being wound by hand also requires access to F11 though!Indeed. But just clearing the Track Circuit and getting full detection on the points concerned is unrealistic. Yes, I'd agree with that! The release of controls, of course, would be most useful where a track circuit in rear of the connection needing to be used has failed - thus allowing the route over the connection to be released by (briefly!) clearing the track circuit. Failing to drop the track again would certainly be cheating! " said: Finding a way for points to display out-of-correspondence but having pretended to be a track worker securing these and allowing trains to pass over them would be an amazing addition :-) I didn't want to reply until I'd been away from work long enough to check Simsig - but the latest sims allow exactly this (as the chap above suggests), don't they? Just tried hand-cranking a set of points that are being held by a route (with a TCF in rear of the points), and they do indeed start flashing OOC once wound (and secured) reverse through the F11 menu - all the more reason to retain the feature, I'd suggest. Last edited: 29/12/2013 at 21:52 by Late Turn Log in to reply |
| Rerouting trains? 29/12/2013 at 22:43 #53405 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
I've seen a handcrank release used recently on Swindon panel in conjunction with the Kemble redoubling, the line being under possession and all signalling equipment disconnected. Reading PSB had many of these releases which survived being transferred to TVSC. Log in to reply |
| Rerouting trains? 31/12/2013 at 13:52 #53485 | |
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jsiren
6 posts |
Interesting discussion, I've read up on UK practice, but real life is always a different matter.
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| Rerouting trains? 31/12/2013 at 15:00 #53491 | |
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jsiren
6 posts |
So I recreated the failure and attached a screenshot of the affected area. What happened was that the TC failure left part of the route set, keeping the points locked. I was dithering between diverting trains and F11. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Rerouting trains? 31/12/2013 at 15:40 #53494 | |
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JamesN
1607 posts |
Yeah, GW would divert 1Lxx/1Bxx via Bath Spa
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| Rerouting trains? 31/12/2013 at 15:52 #53495 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
That is one of the circumstances when a release of controls may be carried out (nowadays in module TS11, Reg 4.1, but only to allow any affected points to be swung to the other position (although that would then let you pull off from the Up Badminton?). Hand-cranking the points (simulated via F11) would be the more sensible option, otherwise you'd have to go through the whole release of controls procedure (which isn't straightforward) every time you need to move the switch diamonds and the facing points. A release of controls would be more appropriate if the TC in rear had failed, which would serve to free the junction for unrestricted running to/from Badminton and over the Down Main, and allow the points to be operated individually from the panel for trains to be talked through off the Up Main.
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| Rerouting trains? 31/12/2013 at 16:39 #53501 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2078 posts |
The route from the Up Badminton would probably clear if the route locking was removed by a release of controls. To do this, find the track circuit in the incident panel, clear it, wait for the route locking to drop, then occupy it again. It will then be fixed by the technician in the normal manner. Officially, you have to stop all movements in the interlocking area concerned, but this would not matter too much in SimSig. If you do not set any more routes across it then you should only have to do this once. All the points should be keyed to the correct position and held there with reminders and all trains that have to pass over this track circuit talked passed the signal without setting a route. Any routes that do not pass over this track circuit can be signalled normally. The route from the Up Badminton line should work with this track circuit occupied, otherwise it would not be possible to parallel route across the junction, which would not be helpful traffic wise. Log in to reply |
| Rerouting trains? 31/12/2013 at 17:16 #53502 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
Ta, I suspected (hoped?) that it wouldn't affect the Up Badminton, but wasn't sure whether there was any more wizardry at play! I've not looked into it too deeply, but the TC failure looks like it'd lock the Down line facing points and the switch diamonds (which appear to work as a pair). If there was a desire to use the Down Badminton, then appointing someone to work the junction by hand (via F11) would be the most sensible option!
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| Rerouting trains? 31/12/2013 at 17:25 #53503 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2078 posts |
If they are switch diamonds then they will have to be hand wound - I had not realised they were. There would still be advantage in releasing controls on the rest though as this would free up a couple more routes. Log in to reply |
| Rerouting trains? 01/01/2014 at 11:38 #53522 | |
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jsiren
6 posts |
" said:The route from the Up Badminton would probably clear if the route locking was removed by a release of controls.Yes, that's exactly what I did. The fault had locked all the points in the junction, turning the Badminton line into a dead end. The other option I was pondering was putting a BLOK code in the first berth on the up Badminton line and diverting the down trains to Thingley junction. However, I wasn't sure if the sim would notice the BLOK code, so I went the F11 route. Log in to reply |
| Rerouting trains? 01/01/2014 at 12:07 #53523 | |
pedroathome
915 posts 
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The BLOK only works as far as I am aware, or have played around with before on the Reading Main and Relief lines
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| Rerouting trains? 01/01/2014 at 15:25 #53527 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2078 posts |
It would depend on whether or not it was coded originally when the sim was developed, and in this case I do not think it was. Unlike the Main and Relief lines where the timing points are essentially the same, trains are simply on a different line. The routes via Hullavington or Thingley are vastly different so I would expect they would be a lot harder to code into the sim as a diversionary route. Trains going out of the sim are easy - just abandon the timetable and send them wherever you want, however unless you want to completely rewrite all the TTs of entering trains I am not sure there is much you can do. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jsiren |
| Rerouting trains? 09/01/2014 at 12:39 #53695 | |
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Jay_G
54 posts |
" said:Isn’t that what the F11 points menu options for hand cranking do? If I remember correctly, points locked by a TCF but hand-cranked to the opposite position sit there blinking on the panel; is there something more that ought to happen? That's correct, but once you click on the points to normalise/reverse them (to whatever position you have cranked them too), they stop flashing and you have detection again. Have you tried passing the protecting signal at danger withy them flashing OOC? Would be interesting to see if the sim would allow it Last edited: 09/01/2014 at 12:40 by Jay_G Log in to reply |