Loco Run-rounds

The code is usually "RR".

Then again, "Q" for "As Required" doesn't make much sense to the casual reader either!

I've been passing the Dean Lane RTS through work recently, and have observed the loco running around prior to the train returning to Brindle Heath (where the loco must again run-round the train). In SimSig the run-round moves would be assigned their own unique timetable - does this happen in the real world, as there are no corresponding moves in RTT (or indeed in the NR WTT). Are the trains simply shown as requiring a run round with it being up to the signaller and ground staff to sort it out, as in most cases the locations of the run round are fairly obvious?

" said:

I've been passing the Dean Lane RTS through work recently, and have observed the loco running around prior to the train returning to Brindle Heath (where the loco must again run-round the train). In SimSig the run-round moves would be assigned their own unique timetable - does this happen in the real world, as there are no corresponding moves in RTT (or indeed in the NR WTT). Are the trains simply shown as requiring a run round with it being up to the signaller and ground staff to sort it out, as in most cases the locations of the run round are fairly obvious?

Not only would there have been no separate headcode for an engine running round, most signalmen would do the manoeuvre without inputting any headcode at all. Remember most would have come from manual boxes where there was no such thing as a describer, or even from an earlier powerbox (most of the early Victoria men would've been working the power frames the SR installed in the 1930s - 50s), where you kept the locations and progress of trains up to date in your head and describers (if they existed at all) were strictly for signalling trains from box to box in accordance with the Block Regs.

" said:

Then again, "Q" for "As Required" doesn't make much sense to the casual reader either!

'Q' is derived from 'runs as required' paths in the timetable being known as 'Q paths'; where that originated I don't know but I have little doubt it's one of those things (like 'taking the signal off'that goes back to the earliest days.

Given that the earliest railway managers were often ex-army officers (they and few others having the requisite experience of running a distributed dsiciplined organisation), I wonder if there's a military connection?

I have an idea 'RR' used to mean either runs round or reverses. In many cases, of course, one would necessarily have implied the other, or it would be obvious (EMU stock for instance) which was meant.

" said:

" said:

I've been passing the Dean Lane RTS through work recently, and have observed the loco running around prior to the train returning to Brindle Heath (where the loco must again run-round the train). In SimSig the run-round moves would be assigned their own unique timetable - does this happen in the real world, as there are no corresponding moves in RTT (or indeed in the NR WTT). Are the trains simply shown as requiring a run round with it being up to the signaller and ground staff to sort it out, as in most cases the locations of the run round are fairly obvious?

Not only would there have been no separate headcode for an engine running round, most signalmen would do the manoeuvre without inputting any headcode at all. Remember most would have come from manual boxes where there was no such thing as a describer, or even from an earlier powerbox (most of the early Victoria men would've been working the power frames the SR installed in the 1930s - 50s), where you kept the locations and progress of trains up to date in your head and describers (if they existed at all) were strictly for signalling trains from box to box in accordance with the Block Regs.

To add to this, some areas have a requirement/standard/procedure/SBSI (?) that says they should use 0S00 for shunting moves. For at least some cases this is so the neighbouring box knows what's approaching: if it's 0S00 he can go back to his tea and newspaper. Typically only where the next box is very close or otherwise gets TD approach berths for trains as soon as they depart the station.

Just one final observation - shunts at Uffington, stepping into Peterborough's first berth, ought to be described as 0P00, just to add a bit of variety!

" said:

Just one final observation - shunts at Uffington, stepping into Peterborough's first berth, ought to be described as 0P00, just to add a bit of variety!

There is usually some local convention to follow regarding if a headcode is put in or not, especially if the description is likely to appear on another signallers approach berth.

When I was at Stratford (North London Line), if we didn't put 0S00 in for our odd loco moves in the Temple Mills area, then Liverpool Street (Brimsdown) would phone us up to ask what the timetable was for the approaching train/loco.

There is usually some local convention to follow regarding if a headcode is put in or not, especially if the description is likely to appear on another signallers approach berth.

I don't quite recall the working of the describers at Euston, but I have a bit of a suspicion the bobby couldn't simply go back to his tea (as if he had the chance in that place ) because he had to manually clear out the description.

" said:

I don't quite recall the working of the describers at Euston, but I have a bit of a suspicion the bobby couldn't simply go back to his tea (as if he had the chance in that place ) because he had to manually clear out the description.

According to the original instructions, descriptions were transmitted automatically *to* Euston from Willesden, but manually from Queens Park No.3 and Hampstead Road. They were transmitted automatically *from* Euston when the description reached certain signals; for Hampstead Road that would be 132, 146, 147, 148, and 149 (if the receiver is full when the attempt is made, it waits until it's empty). The one for a wrong direction move on the Down North London automatically cancelled when TC 239 was occupied and then cleared.

Queens Park No. 3 had a different describer system, and so Euston had to use specific codes (2B55, 2B66, 2B77, 2B99 for passenger trains; change the 2 to 3 - not 5 - for ECS).

out of interest, what would a driver of a run round movement ring in as? ie "driver of 0S00 standing at red signal XYZ" or Driver of loco for train XYZ stood at signal XYZ" ?