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| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 18:39 #532 | |
moonraker
370 posts |
Would it be a good idea to produce a bog standard set of Train Characteristics for Timetable writers ? Or maybe some general guidelines as to what sort of Train Characterisitc best suits which train. ie Should you use Medium (Intercity) for a First Generation DMU as opposed to Fast (Commuter). If you get my drift.
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| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 18:39 #5808 | |
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moonraker
370 posts |
Would it be a good idea to produce a bog standard set of Train Characteristics for Timetable writers ? Or maybe some general guidelines as to what sort of Train Characterisitc best suits which train. ie Should you use Medium (Intercity) for a First Generation DMU as opposed to Fast (Commuter). If you get my drift.
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| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 18:44 #5809 | |
lpeters
160 posts |
The InterCity labels etc. are just as a general guide. It's down to the timetable author to find out or make an educated guess as to which type of braking/acceleration a train should have. In most cases, InterCity trains will have Medium and Suburban rail services will have High but this is not guarenteed. The same is true for other types of freight; it gives you Slow and Very Slow as Freight and Slow? freight which isn't very useful because sometimes trains will run empties only which could allow them to have braking of medium quality. It's a case-by-case basis so it's a bit hard to have a standard set of characteristics. It is a good idea though. It might be an idea for people to research this for each sim (the trains within each sim) and make a basic list of recommended characteristics. e.g. Kings Cross; the C313/317/321/365s are all most likely to be High with all of the expresses as Medium; the Hull Trains 180 might be High but not certain. The main problem for this is freight. Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 19:04 #5810 | |
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moonraker
370 posts |
That's exactly what I had in mind. Perhaps local knowledge might play a part here and if people know what the Train Characteristics will be for a given area they could perhaps list them in this thread or maybe a new one.
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| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 19:12 #5811 | |
GeoffM
6377 posts |
For each class of train (as in 321, 390, etc) a list could be produced in the Wiki. A class 315 has a much higher initial acceleration rate than a 321 so these would go into a V high and a high respectively. I suspect a 313 would be V high as well.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 19:21 #5812 | |
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moonraker
370 posts |
Perhaps I could make a list of all the Traction Types on the wiki then and put in the ones I know for sure and then invite others to put the ones in that I'm not sure about.
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| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 20:30 #5820 | |
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lpeters
160 posts |
I'm not certain about C313s being V High acceleration. My personal experience would tell me that it's probably slightly faster than the 317/321/365s but definately not as fast as to warrant V High Brake/Acceleration. I live very close to the Down hertford -> Up Hertford Crossover just past Langley Junction on the loop line where the Platform 4 Stevenage reversers cross over to normal line working and they don't seem to accelerate all that faster than the 317s that sometimes go along the Hertford Loop. And I know the 317s and 321s are considered to have similar acceleration/braking as they run with the same timings on one specific stock working (317 MTO; 321 WThFO). The main problem with this is it's all educated guess work and trial and error. If you can get a WTT and run the trains to that; if they run on time (turn failures etc. off and make sure you don't delay it) and it's late with 1 brake/acceleration mode try another. Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 20:42 #5822 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
I believe a lot of people use The Railway Centre as a basic source of data. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 20:48 #5823 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts |
I had started work on a list of UK MUs with their length/power/acceleration for SimSig the other night, based on information cross-referenced from various sources. I'm not very wiki-savvy, but know someone who is so will discuss it with them to get it uploaded.
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| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 22:12 #5825 | |
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moonraker
370 posts |
Well I've made a start. Have done the most relevant Diesel Locos. Could do with some feedback to see whether this is the right way to go or if it could be done a different way. Info needed on the new Freightliner Class 70's. Max Speed ? JamesN : I'll leave the MU's to you then. Edit : Electric Locos also added. Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 23:05 #5831 | |
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GeoffM
6377 posts |
A good start, James. May I suggest a table format - the syntax is to separate each header cell with ^ and each data cell with |. For example ^ Column 1 ^ Column 2 ^ Column 3 ^ | Row1CCol1 | Row1Col2 | Row1Col3 | | Row2CCol1 | Row2Col2 | Row2Col3 | | Row3CCol1 | Row3Col2 | Row3Col3 | The reason I suggested 313s might be V High is because on NLL they tend to run late if made into a High. I suspect they might have different characteristics under 25kv versus 3rd rail though - anybody care to elaborate? I'm also not too familiar with the newer classes. As a very general rule: - Very low is for heavy (ie loaded) freight trains such as stone and possibly coal - Low is for light or empty freight trains - Medium is for intercity trains, including Eurostar, 90+DVT, Pendolino, Voyager, etc. - High is for outer suburban EMUs - V High is for light engines and inner suburban EMUs, and LU stock Each of the five have an internal acceleration curve, which differs for electric and diesel trains. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 23:26 #5834 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts |
Class^Length^Accel^Speed^Traction^T/LOADIs the data copied directly out of the text file with formatting as Geoff suggested. My estimations of Acceleration for the newer DMUs appears to be out with Geoff's, open to change. A few explanations: The Timing Load is indicated where a specific entry is made - DMU(S) 075 - for example, hence most have N/A (they'd simply display DMU 125 or whatever) - these timing loads and their associations are taken from recent WTTs. The number in brackets next to the class number is number of cars where variations in fixed formation exist, with subsequent variants in consecutive rows. Data is taken from Wikipedia and TheRailwayCentre.com, along with own knowledge and photographs of data panels etc. Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 23:33 #5835 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
I found for KX 1977 that the 313s are hard pushed to keep time on the Moorgate section, but I think that maybe the line speed has been reduced since it opened as I the acceleration needed would require the passengers to be strapped into their seats. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 13/01/2010 at 23:44 #5836 | |
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GeoffM
6377 posts |
Peter Bennet said:would require the passengers to be strapped into their seatsAfter today's events, that has finished the day with a smile! SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 14/01/2010 at 09:19 #5846 | |
Chrisrail
384 posts |
Passenger data is not to hard it is when you start on the characteristics of Freight that can cause a minefield. Most passenger trains are fixed length unit/units. Whilst quite a lot of freight works that way now ,quite a lot does not as in the case of DBS network trains. The timing load does not indicate the length of the rain that is required in SimSig (unless everything runs as a 20m custom). Details of Ugly Betty (Freightliner Class 70) can be found on the Freightliner website) Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 14/01/2010 at 09:29 #5847 | |
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moonraker
370 posts |
Chris, Yes agree about Freight. It can indeed be a minefield. lol at "Ugly Betty" :). Found a wiki article on the 70's. 75 mph max speed.
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| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 14/01/2010 at 11:37 #5856 | |
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Tallington
254 posts |
Did you also find an article on the length of the rain required in SimSig? :: I think Chris needs a few drops of it in his research fluids! :cool: Ken Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 14/01/2010 at 12:49 #5865 | |
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moonraker
370 posts |
Addendum to my list - Class 57. Class 92 should've shown 3rd Rail + Electric 25KV AC now edited to show this. Classes 86 & 87 now shown for Push/Pull with DVT as does Class 89,Class 90 & Class 91. Edit - Heritage DMU/DEMU/EMU now added to James's list (On top). Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 14/01/2010 at 21:08 #5880 | |
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moonraker
370 posts |
One we forgot to add - HST's. Now added in the Modern Section. Variants are 8 car + 2 PC, 7 car + 2 PC and the Flying Banana NR NMT.
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| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 11:16 #5887 | |
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moonraker
370 posts |
Guide to Locos now Tabularised.
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| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 13:34 #5891 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts |
Seperated HSTs (and other LHCS*) into a seperate table at bottom of page; added 2+9 (East Coast) and 2+6 (Grand Central) HST formations; and CURRENT operators to existing stock, using published ATOC codes (to go on wiki?) *There is some considerable debate as to whether an HST is classified as a DEMU anymore. Many believe that they were reclassified as loco and coaches in the mid 90s, but thus far not one person I've challeneged on it has been able to come up with a single shred of evidence to this taking place. So for the sake of argument, HSTs are on the MU page in the fixed-formation LHCS section, where they'll stay! :P PS Getting the hang of this wiki thing now, tis much easier than I thought! Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 14:42 #5894 | |
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moonraker
370 posts |
When the HST's first saw the light of day in 1976 on the Western and 1978 on the Eastern they were classified 253 (WR) and 254 (ER) and the set numbers were on the front under the cab window. So I would say they were classed as DEMU's but now just "Fixed Formation" sets. Yes I've also found the wiki a lot easier to master than I thought it would be. Nice tidy up BTW James. Looks very good now 
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| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 15:05 #5895 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
That looks really good. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 15:21 #5896 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts |
Added a few more LHCS, waiting on details of more. What are the formations for the Highland and Lowland Sleepers? 1+12 for the highland sleeper and 1+8 for the lowland? What mix of MkIIs and MkIIIs are used (they be of different length!) Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 18:11 #5898 | |
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lpeters
160 posts |
I'd just like to point out that the Grand Centrals are timed at 2+7; I can't say i've ever seen a GC go past but the WTT definately times tham as HST7-125 which means 2 Power Cars + 7 carraiges; I know theres the BR NMT which is 2+6 or 2+5 (can't remember which) which is based out of Derby?
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