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| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 12:15 #59284 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
Colour plays a big part in our lives. Red, yellow and green lights are instantly understood, even at a distance, whereas both shapes and signs require interpretation. One can apply this principle to SimSig in other ways, particularly sticky notes. I've suggested elsewhere creating ones with white text on a red background for special purposes. Unfortunately, once a note is created it takes a minimum of four clicks to change its colour. However, here's an alternative suggestion. Let's say you are in charge of a manual level crossing in a busy sim and have to remember to raise the barriers after a train passes through. You systematically scan the sim by scrolling from one end to another and don't want to have to wait at the LC for the train to pass but decide you will check it again on the next scan. Sure, you might look for the hollow RAI(se) roundel on the next pass, but you might also become distracted and forget about it. Try this. First pick two contrasting colours not used on the panel (View window). I selected hot pink and a mid-blue-grey. The pink will act as your reminder that you have unfinished business there, and the grey tells you all is completed. Now create two blank sticky notes; the order in which you do this is important. First create the pink one, then alongside create the grey one. Drag the grey one closer to the LC, then drag the pink one to a vacant area nearby, say on the right hand side of it. If you have done this in the correct order, you should now be able to drag the pink note left so that it is completely hidden by the grey one. In the pic below, 2F35 has reached the signal protecting Topsham LC (Exeter sim), the barriers have just come down and we are about to set a route through the LC. We haven't got time to watch and wait for the train to clear the LC but we must remember to raise the barriers after it has passed. So we click on the (grey) note, drag to the right, and - lo! and behold - out slides the pink note, acting as our reminder.  On the next pass we discover that the train is now clear of the LC. We click RAI and slide the pink note back under the grey one. Each slide required only a single click-drag, once the notes were created. Of course, you could have collared a signal on either side of the LC. But that's misusing them; they prevent routes from being set across the LC, and may be confused with moving vehicles and stock across the LC. Beside, even a blank sticky of an unusual colour really stands out (like a liquorice allsort in this example) when you're quickly scrolling or scanning across a panel. This method seems to work better when both stickies are blank; colour speaks for itself. Which grabs your attention faster, a small hollow roundel or a larger unusually coloured stickie? The two-stickie system can be used for other areas besides level crossings, e.g., turnouts where two trains are approaching but you haven't got time to sit around and wait to see who gets there first!  Another use is for when you happen to find yourself unable to wear earphones to listen to sounds associated with messages such as lowering of barriers, etc. These stickies can function as "visual sound reminders" - great for (some) airline flights, lectures, boardroom meetings, weddings, etc. Last edited: 22/04/2014 at 12:35 by maxand Log in to reply The following users said thank you: ozrail, northroad |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 12:34 #59288 | |
postal
5265 posts |
Seems like an awful lot of work just to avoid being properly in control of your patch.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Signalhunter, lazzer, officer dibble |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 12:42 #59290 | |
Steamer
3986 posts |
Why not simply scan the area properly, remembering to look for the things that need to be looked at, saving many seconds and clicks? All you're doing is adding another layer of stuff to do that's taking yet more time out of running the simulation.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Signalhunter |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 13:01 #59291 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
While I'm not surprised to read responses like these from experienced players, I'd like to point out a couple of things: 1) The inactive grey notes on their own also serve to indicate the trouble "hotspots" in the sim. By jumping from note to note when scrolling the sim, scanning is quicker for me than if I had to plough through all the minutiae, provided these notes are not overdone. My eyes don't have to remain focused, either. Focussing on what's passing by while scrolling can be hard on the eyes. 2) The pink notes can be used to represent a sequence of tasks to be completed before they are hidden again. For example, if two trains are approaching the same LC the pink note can be unhid as the barriers are lowered, then hid after both trains have passed AND the RAI button has been clicked, as a reminder not to overlook the second train. It's important to keep things in perspective. A few, well-placed reminders of this type can be very useful. Later, when one knows the area like the backs of your hands, like training wheels they too may be discarded. Last edited: 22/04/2014 at 13:03 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 13:06 #59292 | |
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GoodbyeMrFish
148 posts |
Maybe the developers could waste / spend time developing a sticky note simulator, That would seem to be more up your street.
Log in to reply The following users said thank you: LucasLCC, pedroathome |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 13:09 #59293 | |
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John
884 posts |
If this works for you, Max, then that's great - it just seems an awfully convoluted method to me.
Log in to reply The following users said thank you: maxand, Signalhunter |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 13:13 #59294 | |
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Steamer
3986 posts |
" said:Shouldn't these be obvious, after only a couple of Sim hours? I don't see the advantage of this- you'll either miss non-grey noted places, causing problems, or you'll grey note everywhere, making the grey note redundant! "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 22/04/2014 at 13:33 by Steamer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: lazzer |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 13:23 #59295 | |
flymo
135 posts |
In your Cogload Junction example shown you have the two trains in the wrong order. 1V51 should get to Taunton first then 1C87. They use different platforms so should not cause delays to each other. A simple look at the timetables should show you in which order they should run, no need for any other method in my opinion. You seem to like making life difficult for yourself.
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| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 13:27 #59296 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
I received a compaint about some of the postings on this Forum last week (I was away and out of the loop, so not sure of the specifics). If people have nothing useful or constructive to say then say nothing. If any of Max's (or anyone elses) ideas have merit in being explored they are posted on the developer board for further evaluation. Shouting ideas down will not affect that process either way. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Temple Meads, fsxfaulder, CTCThiago, Signalhunter, bfcmik, ozrail, larsht, northroad |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 13:38 #59297 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
Also, in your first example, 2F35 may well be next to the signal protecting the LC, but it is blatantly travelling away from the level crossing. A good example would have at least shown the train travelling in the direction in which you're depicting. Otherwise, this makes no sense to me at all. Once again, you're just making more work for yourself. The trick for any signaller (professional or otherwise) should be to be able to remember where trains are and what needs doing. Yes, I may be wasting time by waiting for a train to clear a LC, so I tend to something else on the panel in the meantime. But instead of using some kind of manual reminder system, I memorise what needs doing or what needs attention - phone calls, LCs, etc. Signallers are expected to remember and know information necessary for their panels - whether it's that a level crossing is occupied, or that it will need manual intervention later. " said: It's important to keep things in perspective.I wouldn't contradict yourself by saying this. It was put in another thread you posted in regarding how signallers don't need to scan a panel looking for a particular train, or have the benefit of F2. This is because they already know without looking where the train is. They also know what will need their attention, whether it's a level crossing, caller, or whatever. This is because they use their brains and memories for this, not a pad and a pen. As signallers, professional or amateur, we all have brains, and should use them for this purpose. Last edited: 22/04/2014 at 14:18 by peterb Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 13:39 #59298 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
What I don't get is why the in-built reminders aren't enough. Those stand out very well, and can be applied to pretty much anything I can imagine wanting you wanting to use these pink boxes for. Don't want to route a train in front of another? Reminder on the signal. Want to remember to raise an LC? Reminder on the raise button. Train delayed? Reminder on an appropriate signal and possibly an explanatory sticky. I do note your comment about collaring signals to remind you of something being a "misuse" of collars, but why else would you have reminder appliances if not to remind you? There's a Reminder Override button as well as the ability to remove reminders. If you're concerned about reminders being confused with other things (you mention confusing a simple reminder about lowering an LC in time with one for not lowering the LC at all), how does this method actually get around it? It's more cumbersome but much less specific - there's no indication at all to show what your coloured cards actually apply to. I just really don't understand why you need all this extra stuff to help you play - you keep claiming you're a beginner, but so were we all, and most people survived without strange uses of sticky notes to help them play. I get the impression that the only reason you struggle to play is that you're convinced that you can't, and hence make things much more difficult for yourself trying to compensate for imagined problems. Last edited: 22/04/2014 at 13:45 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 13:44 #59299 | |
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John
884 posts |
" said:In your Cogload Junction example shown you have the two trains in the wrong order. 1V51 should get to Taunton first then 1C87.  Oh dear, it looks as though the sticky system is not fit for purpose. I guess using colour-coded stickies for regulating decisions may not be the way forward after all. Who could have known? Last edited: 22/04/2014 at 13:44 by John Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 14:11 #59300 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
" said:It's important to keep things in perspective.But isn't that the problem. Let's start with 2 assumptions:
I have no data to back this up, but I would guess that a lot of postings suggesting that a user can over-complicate running a sim are made by people in one of those two camps. My perspective on that would be to say that perhaps their view points have something to offer and that maybe the tools already exist to run a sim effectively. I certainly note Peter Bennet's comments and hope that this is not an offensive or personally directed posting. However, I also believe that posters have as much right to respond (in a proper and courteous manner) to what they see as bad suggestions or advice as they do to applaud a good suggestion or worthwhile advice. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: LucasLCC |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 14:35 #59302 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
peterb wrote: Quote: Also, in your first example, 2F35 may well be next to the signal protecting the LC, but it is blatantly travelling away from the level crossing. A good example would have at least shown the train travelling in the direction in which you're depicting.True! Thanks for pointing that out. I will replace it with a more accurate pic. flymo wrote: Quote: In your Cogload Junction example shown you have the two trains in the wrong order. 1V51 should get to Taunton first then 1C87.Quite possibly. 1C87 happened to arrive first while 1V51 was just a speck on the fringe, so I gave it priority without looking too closely at the timetables. Take the pics as examples of the use of this method. Danny252 suggested: Quote: What I don't get is why the in-built reminders aren't enough. Those stand out very well, and can be applied to pretty much anything I can imagine wanting you wanting to use these pink boxes for. Don't want to route a train in front of another? Reminder on the signal. Want to remember to raise an LC? Reminder on the raise button. Train delayed? Reminder on an appropriate signal and possibly an explanatory sticky.Yes, a reminder on the Raise button would be just as good in most cases. I keep forgetting to use this feature. Someone else (I forgot who) criticized blank sticky notes as being too vague and non-specific. This has turned out to be one of this idea's main advantages. Typing anything into stickies is time-consuming and should be reserved for headcodes and arr/dep times, and then sparingly, IMO. These pink and grey notes of mine, being nonspecific, can be moved around to other locations and are only meant to mark the start and completion of a small set of tasks in the area they are located. Collared signals are far more specific. Both have their uses. I realize this two-note method isn't for everyone, in fact not for most people, but I myself have found it surprisingly useful if applied sparingly, so if you haven't tried it, give it a go. I'm not bothered by adverse criticism since everyone has his/her favourite means of doing things. Last edited: 22/04/2014 at 14:58 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 15:36 #59313 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:Yes, a reminder on the Raise button would be just as good in most cases. I keep forgetting to use this feature.I'm not sure how your method gets around that - it's equivalent to just swapping between the different reminder colours. Quote: Typing anything into stickies is time-consuming and should be reserved for headcodes and arr/dep times, and then sparingly, IMO. These pink and grey notes of mine, being nonspecific, can be moved around to other locations and are only meant to mark the start and completion of a small set of tasks in the area they are located. Collared signals are far more specific.Come on, it's not that time consuming to type in a few letters, especially on something quiet like Exeter. I'm also not sure what "small set of tasks" in a signalling simulator wouldn't involve specific signals in one way or another! Last edited: 22/04/2014 at 15:39 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 17:16 #59320 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
" said:Typing anything into stickies is time-consuming and should be reserved for headcodes and arr/dep times, and then sparingly, IMO.Then, typing anything into train describers is also time-consuming, for example headcodes or arr/dep times - which is generally what they're used for - not stickies. At stations such as St. Davids, where you have two train describers per platform, you could put the outgoing train headcode in the relevant describer, and use the one at the opposite end for the departure time. Simple! " said: so if you haven't tried it, give it a go.I don't need to, but thanks. Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 18:32 #59325 | |
Temple Meads
307 posts |
" said:Just for future reference down trains take a while between entering at Castle Cary and passing Cogload Junction, so don't set a route over Cogload for them until you can be sure a train entering at Bridgwater won't be delayed by it. Username TIM in multiplayer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 20:30 #59337 | |
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Sam Tugwell
494 posts |
Temple Meads said:Just for future reference down trains take a while between entering at Castle Cary and passing Cogload Junction, so don't set a route over Cogload for them until you can be sure a train entering at Bridgwater won't be delayed by it.Castle Cary - Cogload Jn is booked 15 minute section time for an HST. "Signalman Exeter" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 22/04/2014 at 22:24 #59351 | |
northroad
872 posts |
" said:Seems like an awful lot of work just to avoid being properly in control of your patch.Would seem more logical if this idea were applied to a multi panel sim being used by a single player, but have my doubts if being used on a single panel in a multi player game. Perhaps this is what Max meant. Geoff Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 04:20 #59365 | |
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Hawk777
386 posts |
Many, many people have claimed that the number of things the average person can keep in mind at once are somewhere from (from vague memory) 8 to 15. I just loaded my saved game from King’s Cross, pressed F2, and started counting. I’m not going to be memorizing the locations of 48 trains any time soon! A real signaller wouldn’t need to, because a real signaller wouldn’t be working such a large area. I am, so I feel no guilt whatsoever about pressing F2 when some random train phones me to complain about a red signal and I can’t find it in a few seconds of scrolling around the sim.
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 07:33 #59370 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Danny252 wrote: Quote: Come on, it's not that time consuming to type in a few letters, especially on something quiet like Exeter.northroad wrote: Quote: Would seem more logical if this idea were applied to a multi panel sim being used by a single player, but have my doubts if being used on a single panel in a multi player game. Perhaps this is what Max meant.For what it's worth, I don't consider myself a novice player any longer, and am now playing Exeter Summer 2006 for the third time, except that it is now v4.0. This is a multi-panel sim being played on a single screen, so involves scrolling. I am at Beginner level, so no TC failures yet. Despite this, I find I am just able to cope with it at about 0.8:1 speed which gives me a small margin to overcome delays due to mistakes and train buildups, and remain sane. For me, Exeter isn't what I'd call a quiet sim, except for the wee small hours. I could probably cope at 1:1 speed now that I am up to 16:40 in the sim and understand what to do a lot better than when I started, but this still would not leave me enough margin for overcoming errors without having to revert to an earlier saved game. I don't guess timetables any more but need to read each train's TT at least once to remind myself whether it stops at station X, which platform it uses, etc. There are few exceptions to this. I've trained myself to scan faster, and one hint for doing this is not to stop and do something such as set a route or lower a LC barrier if it can safely be left for the next scan. That's why any kind of a reminder, be it an ordinary sticky with text, a collar or one of my new whizzbang coloured ones, helps me to navigate from crisis to crisis better as I play. Exeter in its present inception can get very busy very quickly. As long as I don't make any mistakes such as cancelling a route or misrouting a train, or strike a really cryptic TT location I'm OK. I'm right handed, hold the mouse in my R hand and am hopeless at writing anything with my left, so taking my R hand off to scrawl something on a piece of paper doesn't work that well for me, though it does create a more permanent record (use sparingly). I can see why some people in real life use TD berths as reminders, but IMO this comes a poor second to any other method. I still use the Train List when in doubt about whether a train is in motion or facing the right way, and also for abnormal movements. But too much of a train buildup and it rapidly becomes useless. At present it contains 19 trains, none of which are stopped at a red by my inadequate response, so things are under control though 20+ trains would be approaching my limit and, I bet, that of many if not most other players. No one has replied saying they've actually tried out my two-colour idea. It's extremely easy to create a blank sim, and only takes a single mouse action to show or hide it! It's aimed at single players playing multi-panel sims on single screens where most of the panel is hidden. I agree it would be less useful on a single-screen sim like Wembley Suburban, but you never know! Last edited: 23/04/2014 at 08:00 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 08:31 #59374 | |
lazzer
636 posts |
" said:20+ trains would be approaching my limit and, I bet, that of many if not most other players.I am currently playing Edinburgh 1993 on my own. It is 10.19, and I have 38 trains to deal with. There were upwards of 50 trains a couple of hours ago (including many troublesome light locos performing run-rounds), and yet I managed to get them all through without much delay, most of which was caused by simply having too many trains wanting to use the same pieces of track at the same time. My point is that every person has a comfort level, past which they get flustered, or tell themselves they can't do it. I bet you could easily handle 30 trains on the Exeter sim, assuming there is ever a point when there are 30 trains in the sim at the same time. Try Euston 1980 (with delays, track closures, and the odd TCF) or Kings Cross 1977 for REAL chaos. :blink: Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 09:55 #59380 | |
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Steamer
3986 posts |
" said:I've trained myself to scan faster, and one hint for doing this is not to stop and do something such as set a route or lower a LC barrier if it can safely be left for the next scan.Obviously LC's shouldn't be lowered early, but if you can set a simple route (eg route through Totnes, route through Tiverton, route out of Taunton and past Cogload Jn), I'd set it as soon as possible. Once it's done it's done, and there's less chance of being distracted and forgetting to come back to it. Quote: At present it contains 19 trains, none of which are stopped at a red by my inadequate response, so things are under control though 20+ trains would be approaching my limit and, I bet, that of many if not most other players.As with anything, your 'maximum train limit' will vary according to the simulation and your own experience. With more practice, it'll go up. Some simulations are friendlier than others, so you'll be able to handle more trains on those. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 10:12 #59381 | |
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lazzer
636 posts |
" said:but if you can set a simple route (eg route through Totnes, route through Tiverton, route out of Taunton and past Cogload Jn), I'd set it as soon as possible. Once it's done it's done, and there's less chance of being distracted and forgetting to come back to it.This isn't just a "Simsig" thing. I will often come out of Totnes in the up direction in the dark, and observe signal E94 flashing (it's dark, remember), for a route set into the down platform. I will very often not pass the train that route is set for until I am between Newton Abbot and Teignmouth, meaning that the route for that train would have been set into the Totnes down platform a good fifteen or twenty minutes before the train was due to arrive there. I see the same thing at Taunton - routes set way in advance due to no other traffic in the area. Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 10:26 #59383 | |
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sorabain
72 posts |
I like your idea Maxand. I expect just going through the process of setting up these sticky notes itself will act to strengthen your understanding of the problem areas in an unfamiliar Sim and after a while you'd find you could work(/sim/play) without the additional cues. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |