Suggestions for next loader update

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Suggestions for next loader update 28/07/2014 at 20:05 #63251
Charlytos
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268 posts 		I put any suggestions for next loader update, if is possible to add them:

1) Current and next locations doing click over ID train. Where is put ID that train, add its current speed and if runs up or down direction. This detail avoids to open continously list trains and is more easy to see it than opening list trains.

2) Right button mouse over ID train. Currently has several actions. add it, edit timetable and jump to next pass point and in signaling, pass red signal and shunt and reverse. This actions have much use and added avoid enter in list trains continously to use them.

3) Suggestion be added. Possible add change several color details: ground track empty, platformsa and other details. This should let to player put it how they like it. Certainly this changed, should forze to modify profound the program to create the simulations.

4) Select id train on train list. On main program version before to current versions, doing clik on line of any train was selected data train on that line. Be possible do it so, as was on old versions.

5) Other possible change to add. Thanks.
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Suggestions for next loader update 29/07/2014 at 14:25 #63274
Muzer
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718 posts 		Hi - I'm not a SimSig developer, but I've been on the forum for a short while so I feel I can respond to these:

" said:
I put any suggestions for next loader update, if is possible to add them:

1) Current and next locations doing click over ID train. Where is put ID that train, add its current speed and if runs up or down direction. This detail avoids to open continously list trains and is more easy to see it than opening list trains.
If I'm understanding you correctly, I'm not sure this would be a good idea. SimSig is generally designed to be realistic in most cases to real signalling, except where this would be too limiting or where a good solution for a simulator doesn't exist. In a few cases, features for the player's convenience have been added but only very occasionally. Since a real signaller wouldn't have anything like the train list (the signalling system doesn't know the speed of the train or its direction) and many players prefer never to use it at all, especially when familiar with a sim, this would be a little too intrusive and unrealistic for some.

Quote:
2) Right button mouse over ID train. Currently has several actions. add it, edit timetable and jump to next pass point and in signaling, pass red signal and shunt and reverse. This actions have much use and added avoid enter in list trains continously to use them.
This might be a good idea. It has been suggested in the past, but a consensus never really reached, that it would be a good idea to take the passing signals at danger, shunting and reversing options out of the train list, as nowadays in signalling (but not previously) this sort of thing could be done in real life with radio.

Quote:
3) Suggestion be added. Possible add change several color details: ground track empty, platformsa and other details. This should let to player put it how they like it. Certainly this changed, should forze to modify profound the program to create the simulations.
I certainly think this is a good idea, though I wouldn't use it myself - for those who have impaired colour vision I expect this could be useful, to allow them to pick colours they can more clearly distinguish. Obviously not a problem in real signalling as you could simply require that everyone have perfect colour vision (do they, out of interest, or is it not a problem in practice?), but it'd be nice if those with such impairments were able to play SimSig with a modified colour scheme.

Quote:
4) Select id train on train list. On main program version before to current versions, doing clik on line of any train was selected data train on that line. Be possible do it so, as was on old versions.
I'm not sure what you mean here. You can return to what I believe is the old version of the train list by enabling the "Legacy train list" option under options --> display.
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Suggestions for next loader update 29/07/2014 at 16:53 #63278
Charlytos
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268 posts 		Thanks Muzer to put your ideas over my suggestions.
Over point 4) I put it best. The old main program versions 3.x when player did click on any line of train (list trains window), that line was selected blue. The new 4.x main program versions, don't put blue selected for that line.
And the new v. 4.x main program has 2 colors background alternance lines. On any cases is difficult to see well the words. The old versions 3.x had white background and black data text. Being more easy to see it. Thanks.
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Suggestions for next loader update 29/07/2014 at 17:14 #63280
sloppyjag
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480 posts 		" said:
Thanks Muzer to put your ideas over my suggestions.
Over point 4) I put it best. The old main program versions 3.x when player did click on any line of train (list trains window), that line was selected blue. The new 4.x main program versions, don't put blue selected for that line.
And the new v. 4.x main program has 2 colors background alternance lines. On any cases is difficult to see well the words. The old versions 3.x had white background and black data text. Being more easy to see it. Thanks.
As noted by Muzer, ticking "Legacy train list" (Options/F3, Display tab) gives you these options on latest version of loader - selected line is highlighted blue and alternating colours are removed, exactly as seen in 3.x versions.
Planotransitophobic!
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Suggestions for next loader update 29/07/2014 at 20:06 #63296
Charlytos
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268 posts 		Sloppyjag, thanks by your suggestion. I ignored that mentioned detail. I shall look and fix it now.
Yes, shows train list how was on old v. 3.x. Before I didn't read well answer from Muzer over point 4. Not understanding correctly his words.
New detail added. When player loads session saved with previous loader version from new loader version, receives error message.
Than that save was made with 4.x previous version. Canning the sim not work properly so.

Question over that. Is forzed to start new session each time than loader is updated or don't take care by that error message?
Last edited: 29/07/2014 at 20:31 by Charlytos
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Suggestions for next loader update 30/07/2014 at 09:20 #63304
maxand
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1637 posts 		Replying to Charlytos:

1) You may not understand that SimSig is intended to be so realistic that, just as in real life, all the signaller has to go on are what he sees on the panel. Forget about the Train List. With the present reliable but antiquated screen display, trains are not fitted with any device which informs the signaller what their present speed is. Likewise you do not need to be told what direction they are facing; this should be obvious from the panel. Whatever data the Train List gives you is a "cheat" - helpful if you are just learning SimSig, unrealistic if you want to play it like a real signaller.

The only use for the Train List is to modify the Timetable and to issue commands to drivers. Normally the driver follows his timetable and has no need to communicate with you unless he finds himself stuck at a red signal for too long.

Maybe if the real life computer system is updated to include all this extra on-screen information, SimSig will be updated to reflect this.

2) As Muzer says, these extra commands which it appears are now possible using cab radio communication could be moved from the Train List to another entry on the train TD R-hand context menu, but there are problems with this. First, for safety reasons signallers are not supposed to call drivers as it might distract them when they are concentrating on driving the train, so would have to be limited to emergencies (which are disallowed in SimSig) or when the train is clearly stationary. There is also, I believe, an emergency Stop light in the driver's cabin which can be activated by the signaller.

Since, as I understand it, in real life the VDU panel does not provide a mouse-clickable means of instigating communication with the driver, it shouldn't be allowed in SimSig. Using the Train List for this purpose, as we currently do for reasons of expediency, simply adds to the mess by mixing ("hand-of-god"actions such as Extreme Measures that have no place in real life with perfectly valid communications. No, far better to put all signaller-driver communications in the Telephone Calls window, where it belongs. Unfortunately this would appear to require such a massive re-coding effort that we shouldn't hold our breaths waiting for this to arrive.

3) SimSig's colours are required to be the same as those in real life panels. Remember, SimSig is not a game. Games have to be much more customizable, otherwise they don't sell. If a signaller could customize his/her panel colours, etc., the guy replacing him/her might get confused and make a terrible mistake, resulting in lots of people getting killed and generally bad press all round. I hate playing sims with ARS as the colours seem to be the wrong way round, but there's nothing I can do to change this.

4) I don't fully understand what you mean here. However, clicking is old-fashioned. With today's technology it should be possible simply to hover over a train's TD and see all the data appear above it as a tooltip (maybe even transparent). But I guess most railwaymen believe tooltips are things to be sharpened.

Oh, and please post any suggestions in the Features Wish List section of the forum instead of here. Maybe the mods could move this thread.
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Suggestions for next loader update 30/07/2014 at 12:04 #63308
Muzer
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718 posts 		" said:
3) SimSig's colours are required to be the same as those in real life panels. Remember, SimSig is not a game. Games have to be much more customizable, otherwise they don't sell. If a signaller could customize his/her panel colours, etc., the guy replacing him/her might get confused and make a terrible mistake, resulting in lots of people getting killed and generally bad press all round. I hate playing sims with ARS as the colours seem to be the wrong way round, but there's nothing I can do to change this.
As I mentioned in my post, I would argue that there is a good case for adding customisable colours. Although SimSig is designed to be realistic, allowing the user to change the colour scheme seems to be quite harmless to me - most people would probably stick with the default (which would still obviously be the realistic one) - and I expect it would make it much easier to play for people with certain forms of colour blindness. Obviously if you have a form of colour blindness that would impair your ability to read the screen in real life, you wouldn't be allowed to be a signaller - but since we don't have any entrance tests for SimSig and it's intentionally designed to be relatively easy to jump into, I don't think this particular thing needs to be enforced as being 100% realistic. I don't know if the colours used in SimSig would be hard for many people to distinguish, though, so maybe the problem is so rare it's not worth bothering with. I'm no expert on colour blindness, I've just had quite a few conversations with colour blind people ;). Is there anyone on the forum who has problems discerning colours used in SimSig, out of interest?
Last edited: 30/07/2014 at 12:05 by Muzer
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Suggestions for next loader update 30/07/2014 at 13:01 #63310
Charlytos
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268 posts 		Muzer and Maxand, thanks by your replies. Think you, than my suggestions are put as single player. I ignore all technical details and reasons than you put on your answers. Understand and take note of your details to understand best the technical part of SimSig.
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Wasn't put detail over problem loading saved sessions made with previous loader version. Receive error message, than saved session made with old 4.x version can have issues loading with new 4.x loader version.
How do I make, start new session or continue playing loaded session? On old main program 3.x, this was updated to new version but player could to load the saved sessions without problems. By that the doubt put over this detail.
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Suggestions for next loader update 30/07/2014 at 13:19 #63312
JamesN
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1612 posts 		Carlos, you will get a warning message but normally there is no problem continuing the save.
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Suggestions for next loader update 30/07/2014 at 13:32 #63315
Charlytos
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268 posts 		Thanks JamesN to clarify it.
Last edited: 30/07/2014 at 13:43 by Charlytos
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Suggestions for next loader update 30/07/2014 at 14:17 #63319
clive
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2799 posts 		" said:

As I mentioned in my post, I would argue that there is a good case for adding customisable colours.
It would be technically relatively simple - it's already possible for a sim developer to change a lot of the colours, including the ARS ones that annoy Max. Apart from the policy question, the main issue would be a good user interface.

I've just checked: there are 65 configurable single colours plus 18 colour pairs, for a total of 101 settings. Each can be any of 17 different colours. But there are places when the sim data can override the configurable colour in various ways, in which case there is a choice of 12 specific colours to use. And ground frames have slightly different shades for two of the 17 colour identifiers. So, is the right requirement "change all 'grey' to this shade of light blue", or "change unoccupied track circuits to 'brown'", or "change unoccupied track circuits to this shade of light blue"? Should it be a global setting or per-sim? All questions that would need answering.

Anyway, it's now item 11299 in the wish list on our bug tracking system.
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Suggestions for next loader update 30/07/2014 at 14:42 #63320
Sacro
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1171 posts 		I think one of the aids to people with red/green colour blindness might be to have all signals show panel mode style (on / off only) but render them as banner repeaters, therefore you can tell by the angle which you are looking at.
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Suggestions for next loader update 06/08/2014 at 12:11 #63556
Charlytos
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268 posts 		Other possible suggestion for players. When player go out from simulation, be added question window: Do you want to save current session? Yes or No answers. This can be used by users running old versions and new versions with loader. Thanks.
Last edited: 06/08/2014 at 12:12 by Charlytos
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The following user said thank you: Danny252
Suggestions for next loader update 06/08/2014 at 12:46 #63557
Danny252
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1461 posts 		The lack of which currently is very odd, given that there's a similar query about saving modified timetables!
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Suggestions for next loader update 06/08/2014 at 13:49 #63561
Meld
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1111 posts 		I'm assuming that creating new timetables and using UIDs is core code and not per sim.

Activities created using UIDs will not show in any simplifier, all you get is N: J: PS: DR: etc the only way to get the activity is to click on the headcode. If you don't use the UID, or say no when offered, the headcode will appear as expected.

Or am I doing something wrong ????
Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
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Suggestions for next loader update 07/08/2014 at 03:14 #63586
GeoffM
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6380 posts 		" said:
Other possible suggestion for players. When player go out from simulation, be added question window: Do you want to save current session? Yes or No answers. This can be used by users running old versions and new versions with loader. Thanks.
" said:
The lack of which currently is very odd, given that there's a similar query about saving modified timetables!
Well, it asks if you want to exit, so the confirmation is there, just not the option to actually save.

The ideas and issues reported here are being noted - thanks.
SimSig Boss
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Suggestions for next loader update 07/08/2014 at 10:15 #63596
Danny252
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1461 posts 		" said:
" said:
Other possible suggestion for players. When player go out from simulation, be added question window: Do you want to save current session? Yes or No answers. This can be used by users running old versions and new versions with loader. Thanks.
" said:
The lack of which currently is very odd, given that there's a similar query about saving modified timetables!
Well, it asks if you want to exit, so the confirmation is there, just not the option to actually save.
Hopefully all the more easy to do, then! :-)
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Suggestions for next loader update 09/08/2014 at 20:14 #63700
postal
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5269 posts
Online 		" said:
The ideas and issues reported here are being noted - thanks.
For reference, the option to save before exiting was first put on the Wish List on the Issue Tracker on 19/11/2011 as Mantis 0006741, which is long before the loader.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Suggestions for next loader update 10/08/2014 at 00:27 #63717
maxand
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1637 posts 		Not long ago I added a feature request here for optional time-stamped saved games on exit. Some thought this a good idea and suggested variations to it.
Last edited: 10/08/2014 at 00:28 by maxand
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Suggestions for next loader update 14/08/2014 at 03:17 #63776
TylerE
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149 posts 		You know what'd be really cool? Sim selection via map. You'd have a map of england, and then each route would be highlighted in a different color. You could ship a transparent PNG with each sim that would be the highlighted section. Something kinda like this:



This would not only look cool it would also make it obvious what's chainable.
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Suggestions for next loader update 14/08/2014 at 07:54 #63777
Peter Bennet
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5419 posts
Online 		That's a map of Great Britain, not England; but that's what's being discussed here.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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The following user said thank you: sloppyjag
Suggestions for next loader update 14/08/2014 at 09:08 #63779
jc92
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3701 posts 		how about moving the crew change tick box from the activities box, to the timetable location box when editing a timetable? I know crew change doesn't do much yet, but a lot of a trains don't conduct an activity while relieving. for instance I have 6M52 which relieves at bedford RP. I have entered the train types dwell time for a crew change to 2 mins. it would be nice if the crew change box could be ticked, and this would instigate this custom dwell time automatically (Ie without defining a custom dwell time for the location). equally as 6M52 doesn't change loco, attach or detach, it's impossible to use the crew change box due to its current location. also a minor wish - could locations with crew change ticked display in the format 00C00.

Joe
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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The following users said thank you: Steamer, TimTamToe
Suggestions for next loader update 14/08/2014 at 11:25 #63783
TimTamToe
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664 posts 		" said:
how about moving the crew change tick box from the activities box, to the timetable location box when editing a timetable? I know crew change doesn't do much yet, but a lot of a trains don't conduct an activity while relieving. for instance I have 6M52 which relieves at bedford RP. I have entered the train types dwell time for a crew change to 2 mins. it would be nice if the crew change box could be ticked, and this would instigate this custom dwell time automatically (Ie without defining a custom dwell time for the location). equally as 6M52 doesn't change loco, attach or detach, it's impossible to use the crew change box due to its current location. also a minor wish - could locations with crew change ticked display in the format 00C00.

Joe
Agree with you Joe; I encountered that as well during a bit of writing. 00c00 seems a good idea of displaying it too (don't think anything else uses c at the mo)

Gareth
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