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| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 15:35 #65072 | |
peterb
452 posts |
I put this post in the Carlisle section since it's the sim I'm having this issue with though I don't believe it's restricted to this sim only. Many of my trains in this timetable produce the warning "Has locations after exit point xxx" Predominately, xxx is Oxenholme in the southbound direction and Grayrigg in the northbound. All of my timetables have been validated and they all have locations such as Grayrigg, Lambrigg in etc. I believe the warning can be erased by removing non-mandatory timing points, however I'd like to try and get round the problem without having to resort to this - I don't believe removing valid timing points should be the answer. Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 15:39 #65073 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
Could you post a screenshot of one of the trains timetables which the analyser is throwing up a warning for?
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 15:49 #65074 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
" said:Could you post a screenshot of one of the trains timetables which the analyser is throwing up a warning for? Or, even better, post the timetable, or at least a specimen exhibiting the problem. Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 16:03 #65075 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
Attached two examples.
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| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 16:41 #65080 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
Apparently, the sim doesn't like the Lambrigg location. Seems like it doesn't think it's between Oxenholme and Grayrigg. Removing it seems to suppress the warning. Also, don't take it wrong, but I can't see the value of mentioning every location possible in the timetable. Some of these TIPLOCs aren't even non-mandatory locations according to Rules of the Plan, so why include them? Even more peculiar is that there are locations which you could include but didn't (Harrison's sdg, Eden Valley UGL, Penrith South Jn, Plumpton, Upperby Bridge Jn and Upperby Jn). Needless to say expresses should only have Oxenholme, Tebay, Penrith, Carlisle. Last edited: 16/10/2014 at 17:06 by Finger Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 17:16 #65082 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
Some of those locations listed don't validate ('no valid paths'). I think we can deduce that Lambrigg is a bug then, even though it isn't a mandatory location? Here's a couple more examples. 3 lists Caldew Jn as the 'exit point', 4 lists Gretna Junction. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 17:23 #65084 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
Looks like Finger is correct: Lambrigg has been made an external location so the sim expects any further locations to also be external which, of course, they're not.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 17:44 #65085 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
Would examples 3 and 4 be best split if Kingsmoor is considered an exit point?
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| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 18:22 #65086 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
" said:I think we can deduce that Lambrigg is a bug then, even though it isn't a mandatory location? Lambrigg isn't a mandatory location, it isn't even a non-mandatory location. If it is a bug, it is surely a minor one. Kingmoor Depot is an exit point (and that's correct). You must split these timetables in two. Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 18:23 #65087 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:Lambrigg isn't a mandatory location, it isn't even a non-mandatory location.So if it's not a location you have to include, and also not a location you don't have to include, what is it? A non-location? Last edited: 16/10/2014 at 18:24 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 19:06 #65089 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
" said:" said:" said:I think we can deduce that Lambrigg is a bug then, even though it isn't a mandatory location? " said:Lambrigg:Lambrigg isn't a mandatory location, it isn't even a non-mandatory location.So if it's not a location you have to include, and also not a location you don't have to include, what is it? A non-location? NLC:209003 TIPLOC:LBRIGG STANME:LAMBRIGG STANOX:09337 SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 19:33 #65090 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
I was puzzled myself at the time when writing the sim. I assumed they got the occasional use with engineering posessions. Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 19:38 #65091 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
" said:Appreciably, nevertheless it's still unintentional behaviour. Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 19:38 #65092 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:" said:Not withstanding Geoff's post it is normal for there to be virtual TIPLOCs added to Sims just to get things such as train reversing to work and sometimes ARS to propagate. So had Lambrigg (say) not existed as a real TIPLOC location it is conceivable that it would be necessary to create it anyway to get the Sim to work." said:" said:I think we can deduce that Lambrigg is a bug then, even though it isn't a mandatory location? Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 19:47 #65093 | |
Steamer
3984 posts |
Out of interest, are you attempting to input every timing point listed in RTT? If so, be aware that RTT will attempt to list times for every single location, regardless of whether the train is actually timed there. Compare this schedule from RTT with the one from OTT, which only shows locations the train is actually timed at. Apologies if you already know this. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 16/10/2014 at 19:47 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 19:53 #65094 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
Steamer - possibly one of the benefits of using OTT over RTT? [newthread]Trouble is I hate the layout of OTT![/newthread] As I said earlier, a good proportion of the locations won't validate anyway even though they're listed on RTT, despite appearing logical (albeit non-mandatory). Lambrigg was one which did validate thus it was left in (even though it's obligatory) Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 19:56 #65095 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
I had also intended to add in some wrong line via the Emergency Ground Frames which didn't come off in the end. I seem to recall that influencing the design. Could you PM me your timetable so that I can run it with a version under development? Last edited: 16/10/2014 at 19:57 by TomOF Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 21:02 #65099 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
" said:Would examples 3 and 4 be best split if Kingsmoor is considered an exit point?are you confusing Kingmoor depot (TMD) with Kingmoor yard? I dont know of any trains booked to pass through the depot. Kingmoor Yard is both an exit/entry point, and a through location, with the "unseen bits" dealing with that. in general if a train makes a quick recess or crew change it will be fine to timetable it through. if it is due a decent layover (more than 10-15 mins) its probably worth splitting and ruling it. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 22:22 #65100 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
RTT only does this for the day's schedule (and possibly the next day's, I don't remember), as well as that of previous days'. It doesn't do it for dates further in the future, so these can be relied upon more as being what the real timetable writers used.
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| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 22:59 #65102 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
I assume the 'Yard' is on the up side, even though it isn't labelled as such? Also, there's no access from Carlisle so I'd be inclined to think through trains do go through the Depot as it is labelled. Speaking of labelling I'd be interested to know where the access to Brunthill terminal is since that's not marked. " said: RTT only does this for the day's schedule (and possibly the next day's, I don't remember), as well as that of previous days'. It doesn't do it for dates further in the future, so these can be relied upon more as being what the real timetable writers used.RTT also doesn't list half-minute times for trains in the future, only for the present day and past. I can't fathom at all why that should be the case! Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 16/10/2014 at 23:52 #65104 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
That's a very good question. I would hazard a guess it's some limitation in the way Tom is storing the time data for future trains (I seem to remember he told me he uses three completely separate databases to store trains in various states - future, present and past - which trains are seamlessly moved between). I shall ask him next time I get the chance.
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| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 17/10/2014 at 08:31 #65106 | |
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jc92
3685 posts |
" said:I assume the 'Yard' is on the up side, even though it isn't labelled as such? Also, there's no access from Carlisle so I'd be inclined to think through trains do go through the Depot as it is labelled. Speaking of labelling I'd be interested to know where the access to Brunthill terminal is since that's not marked.its on the down past the depot labelled Kingmoor Marshalling Yard. Mandatory Points are Carlisle, Caldew Jcn and Carlisle Yard (not Kingmoor yard in the Location list). entry is via Down goods, Down recessing Sdgs 1-5 or the up departure road depending on what Slot the tower gives you. the sidings on the up are Kingmoor Up sidings which were formerly used for spare goods and Parcels stock. Brunthill is accessed via a branch from Kingmoor Yard, and is therefore off sim. Joe "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 17/10/2014 at 08:49 #65107 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
I think the Kingmoor issue was something to do with NR's Timetable planners using it as a location to recess trains for what I presume to be crew relief. There was no indication whether a train was to sit on the main line or go into the sidings and come back out.
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| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 17/10/2014 at 16:17 #65110 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
Joe, In the 2000 era (the era I'm working in), 'Kingmoor Marsh Yard' does not exist on the panel. It does in 80s mode as you describe but not in the modern era. In the modern era, on the down side I see 'Kingmoor Depot', and 'Carlisle New Yard' (though the location is 'Carlisle Yard'). In the WTT we find such locations as Kingmoor Siding, and Kingmoor TMD, which I assume are both marked on the panel as 'Kingmoor Depot'. I'd appreciate some clarification on this just to prove that I do understand the layout! Log in to reply |
| TT Warning "Has locations after exit point" 17/10/2014 at 18:52 #65115 | |
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Steamer
3984 posts |
" said:Joe,Kingmoor TMD is labelled 'Kingmoor Depot' on the panel. I'm almost certain that 'Kingmoor Sidings' refers to part of Carlisle (Kingmoor) Yard, and that the trains don't go to the TMD- as you can see from the image below (not mine) the TMD is dedicated to loco facilities. 
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 17/10/2014 at 18:53 by Steamer Log in to reply |