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| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 10:48 #59386 | |
Firefly
521 posts |
I guess it's a case of whatever works for you, however stickies on VDU based signalling systems is obviously not prototypical. The reminders are there to be used, and real world signallers will use them to prevent ARS setting a route when they want to give priority to another train, or to remind themselves not to set a route. They are not restricted to emergencies or possessions. Another method to prevent ARS setting a route is to key the points to the position for the train you want to give priority to. Using TD's is not a great method of reminder because it shows up all over the world on different information systems! It's already been noted that real world signallers have smaller areas to manage. They also have paper copies of the simplifier, therefore they just look at the simplifier and immediately know which way to route a train. (no clicking and looking at train lists) If I was serious about playing this sim I would print myself simplifiers for all of the crucial junctions. On the rare occasions that I play a multiplayer game I always have a pen and paper next to me in case I need to jot down a head code. Also because I don't know any particular simulation very well I'll have a look and see what the pattern is in train numbers. (like 1Bxx's always go fast, 2Kxx always go slow etc). It's not unusual to find notes on panels. I believe there always used to be a note at West Hampstead reminding signallers to switch certain trains to the slow line at St Albans. Passing Loop lengths are also commonly found on panels. Finally the trick with Auto Buttons is to cancel the Auto working one train before you need to change the route. So on Kings Cross for example, most trains are straight through Potters Bar without changing line. When you have one that crosses from fast to slow be ready to take the junction signals out of auto. Once the train that crosses is next but one from the junction, cancel auto working so that the signal stays at red behind the preceding train and doesn't give your train a wrong route. It's all about practice, and personally I'd find stickies a nightmare. Pen, Paper and the built in reminders is good enough for me. FF Last edited: 23/04/2014 at 10:51 by Firefly Log in to reply The following users said thank you: John, CTCThiago, maxand |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 11:46 #59391 | |
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clive
2756 posts |
" said:The Z-order of sticky notes is not guaranteed. A change to the loader could reverse the order you need to use. In fact, a change to the loader for other reasons could mean that the order changes when you re-load a saved game! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 13:14 #59397 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2047 posts |
In addition to what Firefly has said there, I do not think I have ever been in a single signal box, no matter what technology from mechanical to IECC where the signalmen did not have a pen and paper to hand. When I used to play Cambridge a lot, I always had one just for the crossings so that I knew which ones were in use at any given time, where a user was waiting for a train etc. Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 13:19 #59398 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
" said:" said:One appropriate to your current game Lazzer: when I lived in Edinburgh about 15 years ago, I'd see routes set for up trains out of P1 over half an hour early, as most movements at the east end used the down line (I'm talking about before Newcraighall opened; and at that time there were also a lot less XC services as the Voyagers weren't in service)but if you can set a simple route (eg route through Totnes, route through Tiverton, route out of Taunton and past Cogload Jn), I'd set it as soon as possible. Once it's done it's done, and there's less chance of being distracted and forgetting to come back to it.This isn't just a "Simsig" thing. I will often come out of Totnes in the up direction in the dark, and observe signal E94 flashing (it's dark, remember), for a route set into the down platform. I will very often not pass the train that route is set for until I am between Newton Abbot and Teignmouth, meaning that the route for that train would have been set into the Totnes down platform a good fifteen or twenty minutes before the train was due to arrive there. Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 13:22 #59399 | |
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AndyG
1841 posts |
" said:When I used to play Cambridge a lot, I always had one just for the crossings so that I knew which ones were in use at any given time, where a user was waiting for a train etc.If preferred, you can put reminders on the crossing controls, albeit they don't lockout signals - they are purely 'reminder' not collars. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 14:27 #59404 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
On real panels the only on-panel reminders appear to be collars and TD berths, the latter associated with signals or in a block somewhere on one side of the panel. So any other real-life notes would have to be paper ones. Unfortunately you have to take your eyes off the screen and look at the paper to see what you are reminding yourself about, which means you have to keep looking between screen and paper, as well as alternating your dominant hand between mouse and pencil. In my experience with SimSig, collaring a signal or LC button goes further than just acting as a reminder; the object's function is usually locked until the collar is released. No doubt this is true to life too, so if you just wanted to apply a reminder to yourself to do something at that location without locking up any functions associated with it, you'd have to find an alternative method. Note that, as AndyG mentions, collaring a LC button may not prevent you from setting a route across it via its protecting signal - you'd need to collar the signal too. I've just had a look at printing out Simplifiers and the web browser output is nice. In fact, what I'd do is keep my browser open with several tabs, each the output of a different Simplifier command (one tab per location), which ensures they are always up to date. Also the further one is into the sim, the shorter the table for each page. Click the browser icon on the Windows toolbar to bring it to the front. If desired, save the "printout" as an .htm or .mht file somewhere. Clive's comment that "The Z-order of sticky notes is not guaranteed" is most interesting. The Z-order is the order in which graphics are stacked vertically, i.e., in the Z plane (the horizontal ones being the Cartesian X and Y planes). Well, no great loss if they do change, but thanks for the warning. Blank stickies are so easy to create that it's no great issue. Last edited: 23/04/2014 at 14:30 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 23/04/2014 at 16:24 #59409 | |
postal
5208 posts 
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" said:I've just had a look at printing out Simplifiers and the web browser output is nice. In fact, what I'd do is keep my browser open with several tabs, each the output of a different Simplifier command (one tab per location), which ensures they are always up to date. Also the further one is into the sim, the shorter the table for each page. Click the browser icon on the Windows toolbar to bring it to the front. If desired, save the "printout" as an .htm or .mht file somewhere.There is a bit more about simplifiers in discussion about New Street. I have produced several whole day simplifiers using the "copy a 2-hour chunk and paste" method outputting to an Excel spreadsheet. There is one set in the Downloads covering Bedford, Luton and St Albans on the West Hampstead sim to give an idea of the output. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 13/05/2014 at 13:38 #60412 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Those who didn't like my original idea of two-toned sticky notes will no doubt be pleased to read I've virtually stopped using them. Why? because SimSig has the unfortunate habit of remembering these colours and passing them on when new stickies are created, instead of defaulting to the traditional black text on yellow background. However, there is an alternative approach that may work better for you. Create a sticky listing all the manual LCs, one under the other, and park it near the middle of the sim, e.g., in section #5 in Exeter. If you lower barriers, say, at Paignton, press the "5" key to take you to this sticky, open it and type "R" (to be Raised) next to "Paignton". When you need to check quickly which barriers are still down, press "5" and you will see all the ones with "R" next to them. Immediately after clicking the RAI(se) button, jump to your sticky and delete the "R". Keep a second sticky alongside listing your AHB crossings in case you need to cancel the Auto (raise) function for any reason. Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 13/05/2014 at 13:41 #60413 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
AHB crossings don't have any intervention from the signaller, they are Automatic Half Barrier crossings.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Sacro |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 13/05/2014 at 14:20 #60419 | |
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postal
5208 posts
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" said:Those who didn't like my original idea of two-toned sticky notes will no doubt be pleased to read I've virtually stopped using them.Max That seems like a huge amount of work which adds another layer of complexity to trying to control a sim. I have the messages settings arranged so I get a pop-up window when an LC-related message appears in the message window. Then it is "OK" the pop-up and work the LC rather than having to navigate backwards and forwards across the sim the edit a sticky note and work the LC. I can't remember exactly what the setting is in the F3 window but I'm sure you'll be able to find it by a process of elimination. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 13/05/2014 at 14:26 #60420 | |
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TimTamToe
658 posts |
" said:It does seem to be time consuming and a bit of a hassle; I'm wondering if you need to remember which level crossing need to be raised / lowered etc; would a pen and paper next to the mouse be easier and quicker than faffing with sticky notes on the sim? (Edit John (Postal) posted while I was typing) Last edited: 13/05/2014 at 14:26 by TimTamToe Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 13/05/2014 at 15:02 #60426 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
headshot119 wrote: Quote: AHB crossings don't have any intervention from the signaller, they are Automatic Half Barrier crossings. You're right, I meant "manual crossings with auto-raise". Too lazy to check the Wiki. :blush: TimTamToe wrote: Quote: I'm wondering if you need to remember which level crossing need to be raised / lowered etc That's exactly my problem. I've tried pen and paper. I've tried making little cards with LC names for each sim. At present, the "LC list" sticky works best. Maybe I've got a short attention span. postal wrote: Quote: I have the messages settings arranged so I get a pop-up window when an LC-related message appears in the message window. Then it is "OK" the pop-up and work the LC rather than having to navigate backwards and forwards across the sim I find it difficult to understand how this would work, since the only popup message is to tell me the barriers are down. The only reminder to raise them is when they have been down too long and by this time I have already incurred a delay penalty. Besides, it's not realistic. I guess I could install a set of timers to go off n seconds after lowering a barrier, but again that's not realistic. I just need to remind myself or else slow down the sim even more to give me time to scan better. Thanks for your suggestions anyway. Last edited: 13/05/2014 at 15:02 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 13/05/2014 at 15:37 #60427 | |
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TimTamToe
658 posts |
" said:I wasn't implying that you should be able to remember them all (sorry if it came across like that); just personally I would find pen and paper easier than stickies. (didn't know you'd already tried P&P) I know for Cambridge (long time since I played it and this was before I discovered how to use the reminder buttons) when I had it set for lots of calls on unmanned LC's eg farmers, drivers etc I had double sided strips with each LC name on red on one side and green on the other to whether it was clear or not. Whether the red / green may help so you can see at a glance what you need to do especially if you had all the reds in one column and greens in another by your keyboard. Last edited: 13/05/2014 at 15:38 by TimTamToe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 13/05/2014 at 18:25 #60442 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Max This does seem to add even more to your list of tasks that must be completed and therefore you'll become task saturated quicker. The answer is to keep your scan going. Be disciplined. I'd use numbers 1, 5, 7 & 9 to scan through the screens and keep going through in that order. If you see a level crossing down with no route set across it, press raise! If you find that one area requires more attention than another, change your scan order to include that area more often. If your attention gets drawn away to a different area by a phone call for example, go back to your scan where you left off. You don't need sticky notes, you need to look at the barriers and see that no trains are approaching them and if so press RAI. I think you've said before you like flight sims, it's the same thing. No use watching the artificial horizon religiously if you don't bother scanning your engine power, airspeed, altitude, direction etc. You need to scan the lot, but giving more attention to certain areas at certain times otherwise you'll crash. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: maxand, postal |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 24/12/2014 at 23:50 #66991 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
(9 months later) I'm still looking for a nice easy way to remind myself which manual crossings I lowered across a sim. I've tried keeping track by regular scanning (I reckon I can scan efficiently now), writing crossing names on bits of paper or cardboard and sliding them left or right depending on the state of the crossing (but this means I have to take my eyes off the screen to look at them), etc. I've tried applying reminders to adjacent signals but doing this seems to block me from setting routes across them. So I decided to revert to stickies and changed my method slightly to this one that works better for me. As an example, Exeter has 6 level crossings, of which 2 (Red Cow and Stoke Canon) include Auto-raise. However, when things become extra busy you might want to disable Auto-raise temporarily. The principle is still the same. With the sim paused and setting text color to white and background color to red, create 6 sticky notes, each adjacent to a crossing, labelled "DN" for "down" (i.e., barriers are down, corresponding to "lowered" against road traffic). Changing text color to black and background to, say, light magenta for better contrast, create a further 6 notes with the name of each crossing, placing them adjacent to the DN notes. It is important to create the "DN" note BEFORE creating the label note, so that the label note will slide OVER the DN note and not underneath (all to do with z-position). Finally, reset text and background color to your favourite for notes (default black text on pale yellow background). Here is an example:  Now, drag the LEFT-hand edge of the "TOPSHAM" note leftwards so that it covers the "DN" note. Note that the barriers are raised. Do this with all the other LC label notes.  This also acts as a handy reminder as to where the LCs are if you're learning the area. Now, after lowering the barriers, drag the "TOPSHAM" at a point near its RIGHT-hand edge to uncover the "DN" sign. (If you drag too close to the LH end you will end up dragging the DN sign, even though it is underneath.) This method relies on the fact that the LC's title note is longer than that of the DN note.  As before, drag "TOPSHAM" by its left-hand edge to hide "DN" after you click the RAI button. I appreciate that this method is not for everyone, as previously posted in this thread; some will regard it as not worth the effort and have their own favourite means of dealing with this problem. However, it is a good solution for me so I pass it along. The method can be adapted for flags elsewhere. Last edited: 24/12/2014 at 23:52 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 25/12/2014 at 00:32 #66998 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
Could you set reminders on the controls for the level crossing itself? Then when it's time to raise them, unset the reminder and then operate the controls. Saves fiddling about with reminder override, and it's probably a lot simpler than sticky notes, if you can notice a reminder while scanning, which I expect you can.
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| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 25/12/2014 at 10:58 #67004 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Good suggestion, thanks Muzer. I played with it a bit just now before responding. I assume you mean placing a General Reminder (GR) on the approach signal to the LC. Advantages of using GRs: 1) No need to set up sticky notes or any other system to remind one to check the LC's status. A BIG advantage. Also, sticky notes need to be re-created each time a timetable is re-started (e.g. at 4.00 AM), unless the user had the foresight to do this once at the beginning of a session and save that session immediately, somewhere else, for future use, before proceeding. 2) Since I understand real life VDUs have similar reminders, it might be the only way to do it in real life or if you want to be completely authentic. Disadvantages: 1) GRs are not merely "reminders" but additionally prevent setting or changing a route set across them and were not intended to be used for checking the status of any associated LC, thus the logic flow is different. If used to freeze a route across an LC, a GR cannot then be used to block that route without cancelling it, clearing the route and then reapplying the GR. Thus using a GR in this way may cause confusion about its original intention, if for example the SimSig user reopens the session at a later date. 2) Furthermore, if one applies a GR to indicate LC status, it can only be done in a specific order; lower the barriers, set the route(s) across the LC, apply the GR(s). Once the train has passed, release the GRs and raise the barriers. In SimSig this can only be done AFAIK from within the signal's context menu, which means an extra click, whereas sticky notes require only a single drag to expose the one underneath. 3) GR icons are a quarter the area of the smallest sticky note, making them less visible. Horses for courses. In balance, I think I'll go with the sticky note method even though setting them up requires a little more effort. Last edited: 25/12/2014 at 11:29 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 25/12/2014 at 11:40 #67006 | |
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GW43125
495 posts |
He's talking about collaring the level crossing controls themselves. It's called a reminder because it reminds the signaller not to set a route. Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 25/12/2014 at 16:55 #67012 | |
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dwaynedibley
30 posts |
I think everyone has a slightly different method of working sims and it is always nice to see how someone else does it, shared learning and all. Just as a note from the real world, LOMs (Local Operations Managers who manage signallers) don't really like signallers using reminder appliances in this way. They are supposed to be used to stop the signaller operating a piece equipment, moving points, clearing signals etc. If a reminder appliance is routinely in place it becomes too easy to remove it without questioning why it was there in the first place. One example is the signaller who used to place a reminder on his section signal lever whenever he pulled it as he didn't want to return the signal to danger in front of a driver. Then when s&t asked him to clear the signal and maintain it in the off position for some maintenance he pulled the signal and placed a reminder on it. 10 minutes later he forgot about s&t and just assumed he forgot to put it back after the last train so removed the reminder and put the lever back in the frame, nearly chopping the technicians finger off in the process. So in real Life you would only want to place a reminder on the raise button on the level crossing controls if you were maintaining the barriers in the lowered position, which could be for removing a road rail vehicle from the track or if the level crossing had an intermittent fault. If there was usually a reminder on the raise button after the passage of a train it would be easy to see the reminder on the raise button, see that there are no trains around and make the assumption that you have left the barriers down by accident, not that they are being maintained down for some other reason. Sounds like a stupid thing to forget but it happens! I would always suggest using reminders sparingly and only for safety reasons if possible. Way too many incidents have occurred on the railway due to signallers not using reminders correctly. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 25/12/2014 at 17:35 #67014 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
It might not count as using them correctly, but GWR reminders are just the right size and shape to use as egg cups. Arguably, of course, this is using them for safety purposes - so the signalman doesn't burn his/her fingers.
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| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 25/12/2014 at 21:04 #67024 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
DSeaWall wrote: Quote: He's talking about collaring the level crossing controls themselves. It's called a reminder because it reminds the signaller not to set a route.Maybe I should have included the word "collar" to make it clearer to everyone. Yes, that is what I meant. dwaynedibley wrote: Quote: So in real Life you would only want to place a reminder on the raise button on the level crossing controls if you were maintaining the barriers in the lowered positionI assume you mean a panel here with button switches, not a VDU. I can't see any means of putting a collar/reminder on a level crossing "button" (hollow/solid roundel" in SimSig (e.g., the RAI button), therefore assume this facility is not available on VDU screens in real life. Is this correct? Last edited: 25/12/2014 at 21:06 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 25/12/2014 at 21:06 #67025 | |
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Hawk777
386 posts |
Click the Reminder button in the toolbar window and click the roundel. I just successfully collared the auto-raise, raise, lower, and clear roundels (independently) on Red Cow in Exeter that way.
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| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 25/12/2014 at 21:41 #67028 | |
Steamer
3945 posts |
" said:All on the wiki, in an explanation you wrote yourself 
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 25/12/2014 at 21:42 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 25/12/2014 at 21:59 #67029 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Hawk, you're right! I'd completely overlooked that. Thanks. Here's how it looks compared with my method:  Click Reminder then L-click LC button to apply collar; click Reminder then R-click LC button to remove it. I have two problems with using this simply to indicate LC status: 1) It acts (as with collars on signals) not just as a "reminder" of status but as a collar, i.e., the barriers cannot be raised (in this example) until the collar is removed, hence the danger to service personnel as dwanedibley reported - confusion over purpose. Quote: Just as a note from the real world, LOMs (Local Operations Managers who manage signallers) don't really like signallers using reminder appliances in this way. They are supposed to be used to stop the signaller operating a piece equipment, moving points, clearing signals etc.2) One has to move the mouse all the way over to the Reminder button on the Control Panel to click it, then all the way back to click on the LC button itself. There is no LC context menu*, which makes it a big disincentive for me and proves slow and clumsy in practice. Since we already have a means of collaring LC buttons, any alternative way of flagging an LC would be non-prototypical, thus unlikely to be incorporated into SimSig. Even screen stickies are, I believe, non-prototypical. Slightly off-topic: For what reasons in SimSig might one wish to collar (i.e., freeze) an LC? I haven't encountered one yet, and now would certainly not wish to do so simply to indicate status. *This is understandable. Too many context menus can slow down an app's execution, and I can't think of any command beside a collar checkbox that would need to be on such a menu. Collaring an LC must be an infrequent activity anyway. PS What other locations in SimSig would one need to apply a collar? If only signals and LCs, it could be argued that by eliminating the rather long "Reminder" button from the Control Panel and substituting RH context menus everywhere a collar might be needed, this Control Panel space could be reallocated to something more useful. Furthermore, the terms "Reminder" and "collar" are synonymous. Why not dispose of "reminder" and call them all "collars", since this term is not only shorter but describes their function more accurately? Last edited: 25/12/2014 at 22:16 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Two toned sticky notes as reminders 25/12/2014 at 22:14 #67030 | |
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Steamer
3945 posts |
" said:Since we already have a means of collaring LC buttons, any alternative way of flagging an LC would be non-prototypical, thus unlikely to be incorporated into SimSig. Even screen stickies are, I believe, non-prototypical.Depends- they don't exist on real IECCs, but panels (like Exeter) often feature lots of notices and magnetic signs denoting lines/points out of use. Quote: Slightly off-topic: For what reasons in SimSig might one wish to collar (i.e., freeze) an LC? I haven't encountered one yet, and now would certainly not wish to do so simply to indicate status.I suppose you could use it if a track circuit failure resulted in you having to authorise a train past a red signal over a crossing which was lowered but not locked by a route being set, or if you had a particular reason to keep the crossing out of auto mode. I can't think of any instances where you would regularly be required to use them. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 25/12/2014 at 22:15 by Steamer Log in to reply |