LOS on Down Main at Swindon

Pardon my ignorance, what's the difference between a bang road and a cornfield meet?

I'm not in the industry, so take these answers with a pinch of salt.

I know that for long or planned periods of unsignalled wrong-line running, pilotman working is required, which unfortunately cannot be simulated (in arbitrary locations, I mean) in SimSig. It involves having a person whose presence in a train authorises its entry onto the wrong line. I believe it has to be enforced for correct-direction running too otherwise it wouldn't make much sense, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

For even longer periods or periods when no signalling exists entirely, temporary block working is used, which I'm not entirely clear on, but I think it involves paper-based movement authorities of some sort.

I'm not sure about wrong-line running in one-off occasions, I suspect if regulated well and no other train is allowed anywhere near, it can be done, but this is just a feeling, I don't know anything to block this up.

Please correct me if I'm wrong with any of this.

Clive's Cambridge sim has pilotman working built into it. You should try it one day. :blink:

" said:

Clive's Cambridge sim has pilotman working built into it. You should try it one day. :blink:

Pretty sure I've played it. I've also played Carlisle. But you didn't notice the stuff in brackets — I mean, there's no way to specify a single line (not signalled for passenger use) and tell SimSig to start pilotman working over it.

(I've looked it up, Cambridge does indeed have pilotman working in one of the scenarios involving single-line working, which is great — but it doesn't look to be possible to implement single-line working in an arbitrary point in the sim when a failure occurs naturally (ie not a scenario)).

" said:

" said:

Clive's Cambridge sim has pilotman working built into it. You should try it one day. :blink:

Pretty sure I've played it. I've also played Carlisle. But you didn't notice the stuff in brackets — I mean, there's no way to specify a single line (not signalled for passenger use) and tell SimSig to start pilotman working over it.

(I've looked it up, Cambridge does indeed have pilotman working in one of the scenarios involving single-line working, which is great — but it doesn't look to be possible to implement single-line working in an arbitrary point in the sim when a failure occurs naturally (ie not a scenario)).

Yes you can! It is easy done if you know the sim well enough. I have done it in Kings Cross in multiplay.

Barry

" said:

" said:

" said:

Clive's Cambridge sim has pilotman working built into it. You should try it one day. :blink:

Pretty sure I've played it. I've also played Carlisle. But you didn't notice the stuff in brackets — I mean, there's no way to specify a single line (not signalled for passenger use) and tell SimSig to start pilotman working over it.

(I've looked it up, Cambridge does indeed have pilotman working in one of the scenarios involving single-line working, which is great — but it doesn't look to be possible to implement single-line working in an arbitrary point in the sim when a failure occurs naturally (ie not a scenario)).

Yes you can! It is easy done if you know the sim well enough. I have done it in Kings Cross in multiplay.

Barry

No, you can't. There's no way to implement proper Pilotman working with phone calls and everything wherever you want. You can run stuff wrong line by use of F2, keying points and passing signals at danger, but that's not what Muzer's talking about.

" said:

" said:

" said:

" said:

Clive's Cambridge sim has pilotman working built into it. You should try it one day. :blink:

Pretty sure I've played it. I've also played Carlisle. But you didn't notice the stuff in brackets — I mean, there's no way to specify a single line (not signalled for passenger use) and tell SimSig to start pilotman working over it.

(I've looked it up, Cambridge does indeed have pilotman working in one of the scenarios involving single-line working, which is great — but it doesn't look to be possible to implement single-line working in an arbitrary point in the sim when a failure occurs naturally (ie not a scenario)).

Yes you can! It is easy done if you know the sim well enough. I have done it in Kings Cross in multiplay.

Barry

No, you can't. There's no way to implement proper Pilotman working with phone calls and everything wherever you want. You can run stuff wrong line by use of F2, keying points and passing signals at danger, but that's not what Muzer's talking about.

I beg to differ! So what is Muser talking about?! In Simsig, you need to use a bit of imagination. You can talk to the Pilotman via the Driver and authorise movements.

Barry

But it doesn't simulate the pilotman's existence. For example, you can send two trains in a row wrong way down a single line without issue (how did the pilotman get back to the start?)

(I've looked it up, Cambridge does indeed have pilotman working in one of the scenarios involving single-line working, which is great — but it doesn't look to be possible to implement single-line working in an arbitrary point in the sim when a failure occurs naturally (ie not a scenario)).

OK....just to clarify....

The pilotman is a specific feature that was built into a specific scenario in Cambridge. Although the code for the Pilotman is generic, it has yet to be implemented in any other sim at least to date anyway...... :evil: The specific pilotman feature used in Cambridge cannot be activated in any other sim apart from the specific scenario in Cambridge (it has to be coded in the sim by the developer) but you can fake a pilotman's use which is what I am guessing Barry is referring to... but it's not using the specific pilotman feature/code that is in Cambrgide.

However, there are differences between BarryM's fake Pilotman (with use of imagination) and Cambridge's real pilotman scenario. Now it's been a som while since I played the pilotman scenario so feel free to correct this if this is wrong......

If memory serves, in Cambridge there are two pilotmen: one for each affected route. They must be in the right place in order for them to authorize a move to take place. For example, if the a Pilotman is at B, and a train arrives at A, the train at A can't go anywhere until the pilotman returns by some means back to A and allows the train to move. In BarryM's KX scenario, there is no restriction on preventing the train from A being told to run. In Cambrdige, it's coded in so you can't get round it.

Also I don't think you make calls to the drivers but rather you talk specifically to the pilotmen themselves (which is the correct procedure).

There may alsio be aother subtle differences but they are the main ones I think.

" said:

But it doesn't simulate the pilotman's existence. For example, you can send two trains in a row wrong way down a single line without issue (how did the pilotman get back to the start?)

Perhaps he sent the first train through by (imaginary) ticket in exactly the same way the situation is dealt with in real life...?

" said:

" said:

But it doesn't simulate the pilotman's existence. For example, you can send two trains in a row wrong way down a single line without issue (how did the pilotman get back to the start?)

Perhaps he sent the first train through by (imaginary) ticket in exactly the same way the situation is dealt with in real life...?

Yes!

If the pilotman got stuck at a wrong end, Control would arrange for a car to take him/her back to the awaiting train.

Barry

" said:

" said:

" said:

But it doesn't simulate the pilotman's existence. For example, you can send two trains in a row wrong way down a single line without issue (how did the pilotman get back to the start?)

Perhaps he sent the first train through by (imaginary) ticket in exactly the same way the situation is dealt with in real life...?

Yes!

If the pilotman got stuck at a wrong end, Control would arrange for a car to take him/her back to the awaiting train.

Barry

I don't know how it works in Australia but until very recently in the UK, a pilotman using a car (or any other form of transport for that matter) after being "wrong-ended" was seen as being virtually a hanging offence by officialdom. Things are very slightly more relaxed these days but the key thing is still not to end up in that position in the first place. A Pilotman using a car? Generations of Signalling Inspectors are whirling like gyroscopes in their graves at the mere mention of it.

I don't know how it works in Australia but until very recently in the UK, a pilotman using a car (or any other form of transport for that matter) after being "wrong-ended" was seen as being virtually a hanging offence by officialdom.

Things are very slightly more relaxed these days

" said:

I don't know how it works in Australia but until very recently in the UK, a pilotman using a car (or any other form of transport for that matter) after being "wrong-ended" was seen as being virtually a hanging offence by officialdom.

The rule used to be that the pilotman had to walk through the section in those circumstances (unless he could whistle up a light engine from somewhere) so that he could see it was clear.

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Things are very slightly more relaxed these days

I suspect it's because there's no more unfitted stock around, so no chance of bits of train being left behind with nobody noticing.