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| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 08:17 #72165 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
I was playing Derby at beginner level (or so I thought) when I received a message announcing a TC failure, soon followed by another. This was the last thing I needed right then. I noticed in Options that somehow TC failures were permitted in the mode I was playing, but I wanted to clear them before proceeding. As far as I know there is no way to do this in SimSig - the only remedy is to begin the sim again, this time making sure the sliders are turned off. Does anyone know whether it is possible to restore a TC that has failed? If not, it would certainly be a feature worth having for beginners who are just learning the sim and don't need the extra hassle. Log in to reply |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 08:26 #72167 | |
Steamer
3986 posts |
F11> Track Circuits. Click the mouse symbol, then click the TC (in the main view) that has failed and click 'unoccupy'. The TC will clear and then behave as normal. You'll need to set number of failures to 0 in the F3 as well to stop anything else happening. Did you definitely start it in Beginner mode? I've just done so, and 'Number of Failures' is 0 as I'd expect. 'Standard' level has the number set at 2. Also played the full 24 hours in Beginner, saving numerous times, and never encountered failures. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 14/05/2015 at 09:27 by Steamer Log in to reply The following users said thank you: maxand, bri2808 |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 09:07 #72168 | |
ozrail
197 posts |
I've been fixing my own track circuit failures, signal lights out and points failure for some time. I always feel like I'm cheating, but sometimes I can't wait for the maintenance crew to arrive and those signal lights out are so annoying.
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| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 12:04 #72185 | |
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Frankley Junction
37 posts |
" said:I've been fixing my own track circuit failures, signal lights out and points failure for some time. I always feel like I'm cheating, but sometimes I can't wait for the maintenance crew to arrive and those signal lights out are so annoying.So I think this begs some interesting questions about authenticity. As things stand, we are stuck with the failure until it is fully fixed. It's sometimes possible to work round by locking the points one way or another or by manually holding a signal to a particular aspect if a lamp failure. In reality would it not be the case that a suitably qualified person would be despatched to site to manually crank, scotch and clip any points as required by the signaller and then traffic would be handsignalled through the area pending the proper fix by maintenance staff? I wonder whether we should request in the wish list for features the ability to replicate this functionality more fully as by default of hand cranking, the points will be showing out of correspondence but it will still be possible to handsignal traffic over them perfectly safely, provided that all the relevant rules have been observed by those on the ground. Or am I missing some functionality that is already present? Log in to reply |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 12:22 #72186 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
You can hand crank points using the Incident Control Panel as well. But you do currently have to use your imagination and leave time for the person to reach the site, and other such things.
Last edited: 14/05/2015 at 12:23 by Muzer Log in to reply |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 12:43 #72191 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks for the solution to this problem. Steamer, you are probably correct. Not starting in Beginner mode is the only way I could have brought this on myself. Would it be authentic to suggest that a TC failure generate a later, intermediate message advising the signaller that the fault is likely to be repaired by (time), in addition to what seems to happen now, i.e. receive a message that the fault has been fixed and see the segment revert to normal? Last edited: 14/05/2015 at 12:44 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 13:00 #72194 | |
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Steamer
3986 posts |
" said:In reality would it not be the case that a suitably qualified person would be despatched to site to manually crank, scotch and clip any points as required by the signaller and then traffic would be handsignalled through the area pending the proper fix by maintenance staff? I wonder whether we should request in the wish list for features the ability to replicate this functionality more fully as by default of hand cranking, the points will be showing out of correspondence but it will still be possible to handsignal traffic over them perfectly safely, provided that all the relevant rules have been observed by those on the ground. Or am I missing some functionality that is already present?Handcranking is already available in the Incident Control Panel, F11. As Muzer says though, imagination is required to only start cranking after staff have time to get to the site. I suspect this wouldn't be done in modern times, as NR is risk-averse, maintenance staff aren't as common as they were and their competencies have reduced. More likely they'd send anyone available to start fixing the actual problem. " said: Would it be authentic to suggest that a TC failure generate a later, intermediate message advising the signaller that the fault is likely to be repaired by (time), in addition to what seems to happen now, i.e. receive a message that the fault has been fixed and see the segment revert to normal?See the replies to Level Crossing time estimate- failures can suddenly become much easier, or much harder, to repair depending on the circumstances. Admittedly it's not quite the same thing, but I can think of several possessions that have overrun because signal testing took longer than expected. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 14:33 #72199 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Quote:I can think of several possessions that have overrun because signal testing took longer than expected.I'd dispute that. Testing is the last activity so it's always testers that get blamed. The reality is that possessions often get taken late, the Pway work runs late, the tamper breaks down or smashes up new equipment, equipment is late getting handed over and many departments ideas of wheels free is a joke! Ever tried testing points with road rail machines on them, or testing a signal when someone decides to hand crank a set of points to get their not so insulated trolley from one road to another and then fails to put the motor cutout back in. And if testing does take longer than expected this will be because the tests found errors in either design, installation or an equipment failure that requires fixing and re-testing. It can take many hours to get a modification out of a design house and installed prior to re-test. I will concede that some major signalling commissioning will overrun without any help from other departments but that is often caused by late delivery of of the installation in the first place, failed stage works in the run up to the main event and NR deciding to go ahead with a known overrun as it's preferable to delaying the commissioning. Quote: ould it be authentic to suggest that a TC failure generate a later, intermediate message advising the signaller that the fault is likely to be repaired by (time), in addition to what seems to happen now, i.e. receive a message that the fault has been fixed and see the segment revert to normal?As steamer said, it's very variable. Nothing can happen until the fault team arrive on site and how long that takes depends on where the fault team is, if they're already on a fault or involved in a maintenance task elsewhere, how long it takes to drive to site, how remote the site is, how much traffic is on the road (is it rush hour?) etc. The above alone gives you a scope of around 5 to 90 minutes on average although more vital locations would probably have closer fault teams. Then once on site you need to arrange track access. In days gone by we would have just gone out on site with a lookout in all but the most risky locations, however these days "red zone working" is a last resort by day and not allowed at night. Therefore you need to arrange a line blockage with the signaller before you can even get on the track. If it's rush hour it can be some time before the signaller will grant that line blockage. (remember it may not just be the line where the fault is that needs blocking) Then once on site if we take the track circuit example you may have a lot of railway to cover. Many track circuits have multiple sections so although it may just show as one section on the screen they can have multiple sections on the ground. Modern computer based interlockings would tell you which section has failed but older relay interlockings didn't so you could have to jump in at several locations over 3-4 miles of railway to discover which section is at fault. Once you've found the faulty section you'd likely be at the relay end of the track circuit you'd then have to work out why it's failed. If you're lucky and everything at location is ok on the rails you have narrowed the fault down to receiver end equipment and at this point you could give a reasonable estimate. Had you of come straight from the depot you would have probably put the most likely components onto the van and you would then be able to replace the component. Once replace you'd need to test the track circuit which can only be done when the track circuit is free of wheels so the trains would need stopping or the testing would need to be done between trains. That is the easy scenario and if you have the correct component on the van it could be changed and tested in less than 30 minutes. If you've come from another fault or task and didn't pick up the correct components you've then got to arrange for the equipment to be brought to site (remember how variable that can be above). This of course could be factored into an estimate. If however you got to the relay end of the track circuit and found that there was no voltage on the rails you would then have to drive or walk to the feed end to investigate the problem at that end. Once again, if it's a faulty piece of equipment that you have on board then it's probably about 45 minutes to replace it, test the feed end and then go back to the relay end to test that. On the southern region we have impedance bonds and if we suspect one of those is failed you'd be looking at a minimum of 3 hours to get one to site, trolley it out to the location (they are heavy) and re-test after installation. It's just such a wide range of timescales and until you've traced the fault you cannot say how long it will take to rectify. On the other end of the scale if the fault is in the interlocking where the faulting team are based, a very significant fault that is causing a real headache could get rectified in 10 minutes. Let's assume a signal is route locked at Kings Cross and you cannot get anything into or out of a number of platforms. Signaller calls fault control (and maybe the fault team directly as they are in the signal box), team put down their cuppa run down stairs to the relay room and because they know the system very well they can immediately pinpoint the circuit that has caused the problem. A quick test with a multi meter locates a high resistance contact in a relay, that relay is changed with a spare in the relay room and the fault is cleared. A quick set and unset of the route to prove the new relay works ok and the fault is rectified. Hope this gives a better insight in to the world of the S & T :-) FF Last edited: 14/05/2015 at 14:40 by Firefly Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Steamer, meeko, John, headshot119, Soton_Speed, tjfrancis, AndyG, BarryM, TimTamToe, GoochyB, Joathan23 |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 14:42 #72200 | |
KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
" said:Put down a cup of tea? In what universe does this happen?  Kev Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Firefly, flabberdacks |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 14:49 #72201 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:team put down their cuppa run down stairs to the relay room and because they know the system very well they can immediately pinpoint the circuit that has caused the problem.Or, if you're unlucky, you describe (and illustrate) the problem to them, and they promptly declare "that's impossible.", before consulting the wiring diagrams and concluding that it is still impossible! (The problem in that case was a point indicator in a mechanical signal box would incorrectly drop to "Wrong", or whatever the middle position is named. The problem was rectified by energising any unrelated FPL electric lock in the box by pressing the plunger and waiting for it to de-energise, at which point the indicator would show correctly! Being a demonstration signal box, it definitely wasn't a problem with the points...) Last edited: 14/05/2015 at 14:50 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 14:59 #72203 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Quote:Put down a cup of tea? In what universe does this happen? :)True, was the most stupid thing I've written in a long while. What I should of said was:- They begrudgingly take their cup of tea down to the relay room as they're already on site. Had the problem been off site, there would have been a table based exercise to consider the fault, the best access location, the best route to site and think about what equipment should be loaded onto the van whilst continuing to drink tea and read the paper. Sound more like it?  FF Log in to reply |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 15:32 #72204 | |
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KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
" said:Quote:That's pretty much what happened in Bristol Panel :DPut down a cup of tea? In what universe does this happen? :)True, was the most stupid thing I've written in a long while. Kev Log in to reply |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 19:07 #72220 | |
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John
884 posts 
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" said:Hope this gives a better insight in to the world of the S & T :-)Thanks, FF. I, and I'm sure many others, appreciate and enjoy reading yours and Stephen's professional insights. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Firefly |
| Clear TC failures manually? 14/05/2015 at 23:13 #72227 | |
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ozrail
197 posts |
That's the way I think about getting the points cranked over and most of the time you will get normal detection. I've had maintenance crews take over an hour to arrive on site and take two minutes to fix the problem. What must it be like in London traffic?
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