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| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 16:58 #1122 | |
moonraker
370 posts 
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Went to go on the Circle Line today from Paddington and I see they've changed it all. The Circle now runs out to Hammersmith alongside the H & C. Which means that eastbound you've now got to go right across to the H & C Line platforms at Paddington for a direct train that goes through. If you go to the Circle/District Eastbound platform all trains terminate at Edgware Road. When did this come about ?
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| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 16:58 #8534 | |
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moonraker
370 posts
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Went to go on the Circle Line today from Paddington and I see they've changed it all. The Circle now runs out to Hammersmith alongside the H & C. Which means that eastbound you've now got to go right across to the H & C Line platforms at Paddington for a direct train that goes through. If you go to the Circle/District Eastbound platform all trains terminate at Edgware Road. When did this come about ?
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| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 17:17 #8536 | |
lpeters
160 posts |
I didn't realise that circle line trains terminated (except for when the train is no longer needed (end of peak or end of day).
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| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 17:46 #8537 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
Yes it changed some months ago to what I believe it is referred to a teacup shape- Hammersmith to Edgeware Rd via Tower Hill and back. While I am here the new Victoria line stock has started running in service- one tunred up for me on Monday morning, though I've not seen any since. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 17:56 #8538 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Changed in December, around the 15th/16th. My contacts (train drivers, LUL staff) and many passengers hate the change and one of my main sources (a train driver on the Circle line) said it's a management decision and it's utterly stupid. Even I agree with this as it affects me - to get a train out of Paddington I have a 5 minute walk from the tube platform to the main concourse to find my train then walk up the train platform, instead of coming off the tube, passing the departure boards and straight onto the platform and train. I've got a couple of the leaflets issued about the change lying around so if anyone wanted one you'd be welcome to ask - all you have to do is either PM me your address and I'll post you one or if you're coming to the next meet this Summer then let me know and I'll bring one along for you. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 18:24 #8539 | |
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moonraker
370 posts
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Yes it's a bit inconvenient to say the least. When we came back after a little trip out to Stratford from Liverpool Street we caught an H & C Westbound train just to be on the safe side. But as the H & C platforms at Padd are nowhere near as wide and the stairs are narrow too it was a right bottleneck getting to the footbridge to catch our train back to Swindon. People were actually queing to get up them !!. Bad decision Boris or whoever ...
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| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 18:42 #8540 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Yep, that's another problem with it, there is often a delay getting up those stairs at the end of the platform. The 'old platforms' (never thought I'd be describing them as that) had two ways of crossing to the other platform and heading to the exit and it even had it's second exit on the main footbridge so that eased the crowding. But of course "management know best" (NOT!) and all that. If only they did something like most Circle line trains running in this new arrangement but with some still completing the loop, perhaps even Edgware Road to Hammersmith via Victoria and Liverpool Street and Victoria and Liverpool Street again before heading to Hammersmith. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 18:55 #8541 | |
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Underwood
748 posts |
I believe it was something to do with 'making it better and reducing delays'...don't know how that works?? At least in a circuit you would minimize delays as you don't need to waste time changing ends...and besides no-one knows if it's late anyway as there's no public viewing timetable... As for the 2009 stock, you won't see much. When I went in Jan to London, there was only 2 sets that were running, the rest will be commissioned in due course. Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 20:02 #8543 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
I think half the time you had to change at Edgware Road anyway, at least that's what it seemed to me (District line to Edgware Road). Somebody once said there were only ever 6 trains in each direction on the circle line anyway, and they're usually the first to get hammered if something goes wrong. At least with the "teacup" they can turn back early if running late; not something you can do with a circle. A better name for it now might be the apostrophe line, and not just in shape. Often misused and never one were you want one to be. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 20:11 #8544 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
I don't know much about the specific nature of the problems with the 'original' Circle, but I'd imagine that one significant problem would be Drivers' diagrams on disrupted trains (there might not be a public timetable, but that doesn't stop Drivers being in the wrong place for their relief owing to disruption!). Possibly more importantly in terms of service recovery was the lack of ability to turn late-running services back. Even if it didn't matter if the whole Circle Line service was running 30 minutes late, it's more likely that the disruption would cause trains to bunch up on one part of the Circle. As anyone who's ever experienced any sort of delay on Simsig NLL knows, one of the best ways to get out of that one is to start turning things back early - you can't do that if your trains never reverse though, and you can't readily hold them to wait time in new, properly spaced-out, paths, because of the interaction with other services that share most of the Circle. So I'm sure it's not all silly!
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| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 20:25 #8545 | |
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moonraker
370 posts
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If it was advertised better though especially at the main Paddington LUL Ticket Office, you wouldn't have throngs of people heading to the Circle/District Eastbound platform as was the case today only to find themselves turfing out at Edgware Road then having to climb more stairs to cross to Platform 1 to await the next Eastbound H & C or Circle Line Train. Not very well thought out really. Once you know that it's changed fine but a lot of people don't.
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| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 21:02 #8547 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
If it helps the advertising was black posters with a yellow outline thing of the different circle line with information about the change, and the leaflets were also black with the same yellow outline thing of the line in it's new extended format. I'm surprised you had to change platforms completely, District line trains are meant to terminate in the opposite platform face so passengers just have to cross to the other side of the same platform without having to use stairs, etc. This was mentioned as part of the advertised changes. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 21:12 #8548 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
There's a 50% chance that you're going to end up catching a District Line train from Edgware Road though - presumably waiting for a Circle Line train instead would make you miss one at Edgware Road? The same goes in the other direction - I didn't find it immediately obvious which of the two terminated trains at Edgware Road were to depart towards High Street Kensington first (educated guess of first in - first out worked, but I don't think many punters are even that educated!), but you've got a 50% chance of a trek over the footbridge for the 'next' one.
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| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 21:15 #8549 | |
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Adrian the Rock
111 posts |
The plans to do this were described in the rail mags at least a year ago. Apparently the reason was to allow them to swap over train sets more easily when they need - IIRC there's a depot near Hammersmith. The problems of the exit to the footbridge at Paddington were discussed then. But can't you still get directly to the main-line platforms via the main footbridge if you need? Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 22:00 #8550 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Adrian the Rock said:But can't you still get directly to the main-line platforms via the main footbridge if you need?Yes you can still do this (I believe) although I never have and probably never will do as I often use the shops/facilities on the main concourse area before (or after) catching my train, hence I much preferred the older arrangement as I'm sure many other passengers did as well. Also I can't remember if there are proper departure screens at the top of the stairs onto the platform - I like to see the information about the train so I can make sure it's the right one I want or am booked on and for some trains the destination alone isn't enough as there could be a stopper and an express to the same location and I could be booked on the express but accidentally take the stopper by mistake - this would likely leave me liable to a penalty fare. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 22:01 #8551 | |
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moonraker
370 posts
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Yes the footbridge gives access to all the platforms bar 12 I think which isn't the issue. The main issue is not letting Joe Public know about it. I didn't know and certainly haven't seen much in the way of literature. UKTM - Yes there are Departure and Arrival Screens on the footbridge in the bit between the Suburban and Mainline sides. Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 15/04/2010 at 22:03 #8552 | |
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Underwood
748 posts |
Good point about the turning around, and true, more often than not there's a District terminator from Paddington. Does anyone know if there's plans to update the screens at Paddington (praed street)? Other lines pick up when the next one is but the circuits aren't far away on the Paddington section, sometimes it gets irritating when you walk down to be greeted with 'circle and district lines' on the screen... Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 16/04/2010 at 09:01 #8561 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
Personally, I think the new arrangement has one thing in its favour: when I arrive at Paddington on a main-line train, I no longer have any dilemma as to which underground station to head to. The next train to Kings Cross will be at Bishop's Road, and if I want a different line I go to the main station. Previously, both the H&C and Circle frequencies were sparse enough that if I was heading towards Kings Cross, it was easy to make a bad decision that could potentially lead to a 10-minute wait. Having said that: outside London I accept 10-minute waits as a way of life - as a brief pause, even. Somehow on LU I always have much higher expectations than I do elsewhere in the country. Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 16/04/2010 at 09:31 #8562 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
UKTrainMan said:I'm surprised you had to change platforms completely, District line trains are meant to terminate in the opposite platform face so passengers just have to cross to the other side of the same platform without having to use stairs, etc. This was mentioned as part of the advertised changes.District perhaps, but not necessarily for the Circle. We had to lug a toddler, pushchair, and suitcase up and over the footbridge - whereupon the wife tripped the last couple of steps and twisted her ankle. Luckily nothing serious, and we were travelling relatively light, but inconvenient nonetheless. Of course, we would still have had a footbridge had we taken the H&C from next to P14 anyway. If I'm going to Liverpool Street I sometimes walk to White City anyway. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 16/04/2010 at 09:46 #8563 | |
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moonraker
370 posts
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Well at least I know to head straight for the footbridge next time we go. Not going to fart about at Edgware Road again.
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| When did the Underground change ?? 16/04/2010 at 13:59 #8566 | |
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Zoe
252 posts |
GeoffM said:If I'm going to Liverpool Street I sometimes walk to White City anyway. That's a long walk, Lancaster Gate is much nearer. Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 16/04/2010 at 15:00 #8567 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
moonraker said:UKTM - Yes there are Departure and Arrival Screens on the footbridge in the bit between the Suburban and Mainline sides.If you mean the screen(s) by the ticket barrier then they're not all that useful to me. Unless there are other screens I've missed somewhere? GeoffM said: UKTrainMan said:Just dug out and checked the advertising leaflets regarding the change and it says;I'm surprised you had to change platforms completely, District line trains are meant to terminate in the opposite platform face so passengers just have to cross to the other side of the same platform without having to use stairs, etc. This was mentioned as part of the advertised changes.District perhaps, but not necessarily for the Circle. We had to lug a toddler, pushchair, and suitcase up and over the footbridge - whereupon the wife tripped the last couple of steps and twisted her ankle. Luckily nothing serious, and we were travelling relatively light, but inconvenient nonetheless. Of course, we would still have had a footbridge had we taken the H&C from next to P14 anyway. TfL / LUL Leaflet said: therefore I am mistaken, perhaps I misread your original post. Looks like if you want easy cross-platform interchange at Edgware Road then you have to ensure you get a Circle line train from the 'old' platforms, or alternatively trek over to the 'other' platforms to get a direct train from there instead. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 16/04/2010 at 16:24 #8568 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
UKTrainMan said:therefore I am mistaken, perhaps I misread your original post.No, what you quoted makes sense but this does not necessarily happen in practice it seems - the train we caught was a circle and it arrived on the inner circle side instead of the outer. Probably some disruption earlier in the day. UKTrainMan said: Looks like if you want easy cross-platform interchange at Edgware Road then you have to ensure you get a Circle line train from the 'old' platforms, or alternatively trek over to the 'other' platforms to get a direct train from there instead.The "old" platforms are the H&C / Bishop's Road platforms (adjacent to platform 14), which is where the Edgware Road through trains go from. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| When did the Underground change ?? 16/04/2010 at 20:40 #8574 | |
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spfish
56 posts |
I understood that one of the problems specific to LUL Circle line trains was that the wheels were always more worn on one side due to the trains turning in the same direction for most of the route, and thus needed replacing more frequently than those on other lines. Whether this new arrangement goes anyway to solve this problem I am not sure - I can't really see how the train may be "turned" any better than previously.
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| When did the Underground change ?? 16/04/2010 at 21:27 #8578 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
No, Circle Line trains got turned weekly to deal with that problem (e.g. by running Tower Hill - Whitechapel - Liverpool Street at some point in the day). The problem with the Circle Line is that there's nowhere to short-turn a train if there's any kind of delay. That led to all kinds of operational problems. Log in to reply |