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| passing on drivers authority 18/10/2011 at 16:59 #21853 | |
jc92
3690 posts |
ive put this in wishlist becuase im not sure if it exists, feel free to move it do drivers pass fully automatic and intermediate block homes, if they cannot make contact with the panel controller within, say for example 10 minutes? or will they stay there all day? "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 18/10/2011 at 17:31 #21854 | |
ralphjwchadkirk
275 posts |
Module S 1.1: Quote:
1.2 Quote: So by the current rule book, you can only pass a signal under your own authority either when you can confirm the box is closed (not relevant in SimSig), or if you cannot contact the signaller by any means - so defective SPT, no CSR/NRN reception, no mobile reception, no carrier pigeon etc. Since telephone calls are placed in a queue in SimSig, none of the exceptions would apply, so realistically, I doubt this would be simulated. Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 18/10/2011 at 17:33 #21855 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
I assume you're asking for this feature to be added? Personally, I wouldn't want it added - I'd prefer they only passed signals with my permission only. If this feature were to be added then I'd appreciate an option added to disable all trains from passing a signal at danger under their own authority. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 18/10/2011 at 17:45 #21856 | |
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jc92
3690 posts |
" said:Module S 1.1:i was refering to these regulations, however, if i was a driver unable to get a response after 10 minutes, i would be entitled to pass at danger as its also a GSR to answer all telephone calls promptly. 10 minutes is more than enough. @uktm - im mostly interested if its simulated regarding trains held at failed automatic signals outside of my control area, Eg clay cross/ chesterfield "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 19/10/2011 at 00:29 #21858 | |
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Selhurst_Driver
3 posts |
Hi folks, I am a real life train driver and a driver would be able to pass certain signals at danger under their own authority but only after exhausting all means of communication however the driver would have to stop at the next signal capable of displaying a stop / red aspect and irrespective of which aspect is displayed to attempt to make contact with the signaller, Some Train Operating Companies may also have their own ruling in addition to the RSSB Rule book for example not being able to authorise yourself under any circumstance to pass an automatic signal at danger if this signal protects the entrance to a tunnel. hope this gives a little more clarification Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 19/10/2011 at 11:10 #21861 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2084 posts 
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I am also led to believe that, as communications technology has moved on significantly since the rules were written over this issue, that the next amendment to the rule book will remove the drivers right to pass signals at danger without having been authorised by the Signalman.
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| Re: passing on drivers authority 19/10/2011 at 18:54 #21869 | |
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jc92
3690 posts |
" said:I am also led to believe that, as communications technology has moved on significantly since the rules were written over this issue, that the next amendment to the rule book will remove the drivers right to pass signals at danger without having been authorised by the Signalman.i heard yesterday that this had now been cancelled "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 20/10/2011 at 07:55 #21874 | |
lazzer
636 posts |
" said:" said:I am also led to believe that, as communications technology has moved on significantly since the rules were written over this issue, that the next amendment to the rule book will remove the drivers right to pass signals at danger without having been authorised by the Signalman.i heard yesterday that this had now been cancelled I did my rules the other day, and the manager told me something similar about GSM-R and the removal of the passing signals at danger part of module S5. I think it should remain in the book, as no form of communication of 100% reliable. Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 20/10/2011 at 11:20 #21876 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
Nothing is 100% reliable, but sometimes the risks just aren't worth it. LU used to let drivers pass signals at danger with little or no restriction. There were a number of fatal collisions as a result. It may well be that communications are reliable *enough* now that you don't want to allow the risks of passing at danger. Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 21/10/2011 at 12:40 #21903 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2084 posts
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" said:" said:The problem with it remaining in the rule book is that it prevents lineside workers from taking any form of protection from automatic signals." said:I am also led to believe that, as communications technology has moved on significantly since the rules were written over this issue, that the next amendment to the rule book will remove the drivers right to pass signals at danger without having been authorised by the Signalman.i heard yesterday that this had now been cancelled This often means taking a blockage for miles longer than is really necessary, sometimes from another signalbox from that whose area upon which the work is taking place, which adds complications. I agree with Clive that we have probably reached the point where communications are now sufficiently reliable to avoid the need for this rule - when it was introduced there were only SPTs available for drivers to contact signalboxes - now each driver tends to carry at least one mobile telephone, we have Cab Secure Radio in many places, GSM-R is coming in, the SPTs are more reliable than they used to be, and NRN is still there. Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 21/10/2011 at 12:43 #21904 | |
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jc92
3690 posts |
my original main reason for raising this point, was for when automatic signals fail in a fringe location on a sim and block the line for ages- is there anyway to code this in? no answers regarding the sim yet?
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 21/10/2011 at 13:20 #21907 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2084 posts
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It does not happen very often in real life, in eight years on the railway I can only remember one occasion of it happening, and the driver got rebuked for it. Interesting point is that in SimSig the telephone is just there - I do not know if it can "fail" or not. Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 23/10/2011 at 09:19 #21975 | |
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daza7789
59 posts |
Correctly as stated, with the current version of S5 it is permissable for the driver to pass a full auto, semi auto or IBH under his authority if he cannot make contact with the box. I dont know any driver that would do this, and know drivers and signallers that have been on donkeys years, and never had this happen. IF a driver does pass one of these signals under his own authority, the movement will be made at extreem caution as far as the next signal, where he must contact the signaller and advise what he has done. As far as blocks protected from an auto goes this risk is mitigated (It is now permissable for a line blockage (old T12/T2) to be taken from an auto signal. Any work within a line blockage that will affect the saftey of the line must also have additional protection (in the form of signal dissconnection, use of a TCOD, detonater protection, or COSS/PC having the token if applicable). In alot of newer intalations now (Basingstoke and Havant areas to name but 2) Auto signals are all plated as controlled signals, so to a drivers eye, he believes every signal under that box is controlled, even though they work as an auto from the box. likewise all auto signals will have a proved replacement switch on the panel. Log in to reply |
| Re: passing on drivers authority 23/10/2011 at 10:03 #21977 | |
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Puro
18 posts |
I don't see any problem in passing block signals at danger! Down here we do that after 30 seconds stopped at a block signal and no problem at all! The problem in the UK is that your signalling is very messy... i.e - you can have an auto signal in the middle of a sea of controlled signals - You make a distinction between semi auto and controlled signals... a signal is either controlled or not, in the drivers point of view... if it is controlled, you must make sure that the station that controls it is closed (but then, we have a signal outside the station that ensures us of that fact http://www.flickr.com/photos/ericksonjunior/5725810817/in/photostream) Log in to reply |