Default timetable - 2F631 activities

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Default timetable - 2F631 activities 28/11/2011 at 00:22 #23839
UKTrainMan
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1803 posts 		2F631 entered at 08:41.
Booked and duly signalled into Platform 3.
Activities at Liverpool Lime Street are DR: 2F26 N: 2H422.
2F26 is 2/142 and is due to depart at 09:18.
2H422 is 2/156 and is due to depart at 08:55.
Latter cannot depart as 2F26 is in the way.

Current 'live' workaround is 2H422 is now a 142 and 2F26 is now a 156.
Lucky passengers for Warrington Bank Quay getting a 156, perhaps unlucky passengers for Manchester Oxford Road getting a 142.

Anyone who hasn't got to 08:41 yet may want to edit the timetable for 2F631 and change 2F26 to Detach Front.
Anyone who hasn't got to 08:41 yet may want to edit the timetable for 2F631 and change 2F26 to Divide Front.
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
Last edited: 28/11/2011 at 15:53 by UKTrainMan
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 28/11/2011 at 06:27 #23856
AndyG
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1842 posts 		" said:


Anyone who hasn't got to 08:41 yet may want to edit the timetable for 2F631 and change 2F26 to Detach Front.
You don't want to be doing that, if you detach you'll be left with a train without power. Needs to be DIVIDE, not detach.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 29/11/2011 at 10:12 #23987
mfcooper
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707 posts 		This had been noticed and fixed in a previous version of the timetable, but seems to have crept back in again. I'll pester my TT writers.
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 01/12/2011 at 09:13 #24181
delticfan
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476 posts 		I've edited all affected trains by swapping the unit types over, wondering if this will solve the problem?
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 01/12/2011 at 10:10 #24182
Noisynoel
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989 posts 		The problem is not with the unit types it's with the activites of 2F631. It should be Divide rear not front
Noisynoel
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 03/02/2012 at 12:15 #28714
maxand
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1637 posts 		I recall striking this problem or something similar - the train behind wanted to join or do something but was blocked by the train in front, after detaching or dividing.

So far several suggestions have been made, but is there unanimous agreement as to the solution, and has it been incorporated into the latest version which I downloaded only a couple of days ago?

If not, tell me what to do and I'll be happy to edit my own copy. Thanks.
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 03/02/2012 at 12:30 #28715
postal
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5269 posts 		" said:
I recall striking this problem or something similar - the train behind wanted to join or do something but was blocked by the train in front, after detaching or dividing.

So far several suggestions have been made, but is there unanimous agreement as to the solution, and has it been incorporated into the latest version which I downloaded only a couple of days ago?

If not, tell me what to do and I'll be happy to edit my own copy. Thanks.
Maxand

You can tell if the change has been made in the TT you are using by opening the timetable, selecting and opening the individual TT for 2F631 and examining the activities at Lime Street. If it says DR:2F26 N:2H422 you have the updated version. If it says DF:2F26 N:2H422 you need to highlight the Lime Street row in the TT, click on the Edit button, highlight the DividesF 2F26 activity in the box at the bottom left, click on the Edit Activity button and click on the radio button for Divides (new rear) instead of the Divides (new front) button.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 03/02/2012 at 12:31 by postal
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 05/02/2012 at 12:30 #28861
maxand
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1637 posts 		Thanks postal for your helpful suggestion.

I'm replaying the sim right now, Perfect scenario, to see if it runs smoothly by simply obeying instructions. I seem to have the updated version as you can see below. However, when I ran the Simplifier, the old timing mistake seems to have persisted.



I must say that 2F631 crept up on me (I hadn't read your reply by then), so I decided simply to edit 2F26's TT to make it exit at 8:53, 2 minutes before 2H422, so as not to block the latter. The first time I ran this sim I tried to back 2F26 out and into a siding as I recall, rather unsuccessfully, also causing a backup of trains probably all the way back to Manchester. I guess other newbies might have reacted similarly, not feeling confident enough to edit a working timetable, let alone think of doing same. Hmm, maybe I should add a bit on timetable editing to the Royston tute, certainly more constructive than Remove Train.

Well, it fixed the problem, but what about all those commuters who missed the train? So it now appears there's nothing wrong with DF:2F26. Is there a better solution that doesn't involve bringing forward 2F26's departure time?

Thanks again to all you guys for bearing with me on this.
Last edited: 05/02/2012 at 12:34 by maxand
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 05/02/2012 at 12:38 #28862
Steamer
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3997 posts 		maxand said:
Well, it fixed the problem, but what about all those commuters who missed the train? So it now appears there's nothing wrong with DF:2F26. Is there a better solution that doesn't involve editing the TT?
Either edit the train's TT before it arrives at Lime St. (via F4 if it hasn't entered, or via F2 if it has), and change the activity DR to DF. An alternative is to wait until the divide has taken place, and then use the 'Run to another timetable' command on both of them to swap the TT.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 05/02/2012 at 14:21 #28875
Josie
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310 posts 		" said:
Either edit the train's TT before it arrives at Lime St. (via F4 if it hasn't entered, or via F2 if it has), and change the activity DR to DF. An alternative is to wait until the divide has taken place, and then use the 'Run to another timetable' command on both of them to swap the TT.
Though I think it's better to get into the habit of doing the former - it doesn't matter so much on Lime Street, but in other cases your dividing train might be made up of two different unit types, working onward services that can't be worked by the other type.
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 05/02/2012 at 22:16 #28909
maxand
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1637 posts 		Thanks Steamer and Josie, changing DR (Divide Rear) to DF (Divide Front) worked well, swapping the trains without needing to edit their departure times which might have caused problems at their next destination.
Last edited: 05/02/2012 at 22:19 by maxand
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 05/02/2012 at 23:30 #28911
postal
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5269 posts 		" said:
Thanks Steamer and Josie, changing DR (Divide Rear) to DF (Divide Front) worked well, swapping the trains without needing to edit their departure times which might have caused problems at their next destination.

Maxand

I don't wish to cast a damper on your enthusiasm, but this post merely repeats what others have suggested to you in earlier posts from the basis of experience. Your suggestions for improvements and add-ons always generate response and discussion, but did this post really add anything to the matter?
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 05/02/2012 at 23:53 #28912
maxand
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1637 posts 		Here's an alternative solution which I don't think has been suggested before in this thread. Edit 2F631's TT Activities section to read DR:2H422 N:2F26.



This seems preferable as it is more consistent with other trains at Lime Street, which all perform DR rather than DF, as far as I know.

This has been an interesting exercise for me and I hope anyone else who wonders what the possible solutions are when one train blocks another about to depart from the same platform. They include:

  • Editing the TT of the blocking train so that it departs earlier than the blocked train (may cause problems at its next destination).

  • Wait until the divide has taken place, and then use the 'Run to another timetable' command on both of them to swap the TTs (thanks Steamer).

  • Change DR to DF, swapping the trains.

  • Leave the divide as DR but swap the TDs for DR and N(ew), which also swaps the trains.

Last edited: 05/02/2012 at 23:56 by maxand
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 06/02/2012 at 09:57 #28923
postal
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5269 posts 		" said:
Here's an alternative solution which I don't think has been suggested before in this thread. Edit 2F631's TT Activities section to read DR:2H422 N:2F26.

.........

This seems preferable as it is more consistent with other trains at Lime Street, which all perform DR rather than DF, as far as I know.
The disadvantage of course is that there are two activities to edit rather than one (and so more clicks and keys). Not a significant drawback but perhaps a little inconsistent with the desire to produce situations which are as ergonomically advantageous as possible.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 06/02/2012 at 10:24 #28925
kbarber
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1764 posts 		" said:
" said:
Here's an alternative solution which I don't think has been suggested before in this thread. Edit 2F631's TT Activities section to read DR:2H422 N:2F26.

.........

This seems preferable as it is more consistent with other trains at Lime Street, which all perform DR rather than DF, as far as I know.
The disadvantage of course is that there are two activities to edit rather than one (and so more clicks and keys). Not a significant drawback but perhaps a little inconsistent with the desire to produce situations which are as ergonomically advantageous as possible.

Since when was there ever such a thing as consistency in anything to do with the railways of Britain??!!! (I merely ask...)
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 06/02/2012 at 11:14 #28928
northroad
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872 posts 		Max,
I see what you have done here, but in the example that you have given and for the sake of getting everything correct 2F26 is supposed to be the 09:16 Liverpool Lime Street to Warrington Bank Quay but it now departs at 09:18 according to the simplifier. So the timetable editor needs further changes to make it tie in.
Other than that perhaps a note in the Wiki that certain services do not leave at the indicated times however this was due to running difficulties with the timetable and the constraints of the Sim.
One of the pitfalls of writing a timetable me thinks.

Geoff
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 10/02/2012 at 09:22 #29246
Aurora
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183 posts 		May I ask, who wrote the default timetable? I'm yet to find the author's name. It's not in the general section anyway.
Nil.
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Re: Default timetable - 2F631 activities 10/02/2012 at 09:59 #29248
postal
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5269 posts 		" said:
May I ask, who wrote the default timetable? I'm yet to find the author's name. It's not in the general section anyway.
You may find a clue in a two-day old entry if you look at post#5 here.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Default timetable - 2F631 activities 29/01/2014 at 17:13 #54511
Trainfan344
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262 posts 		I Just made the first train wait behind the second.
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