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| Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 08:45 #30482 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
On Oz TV tonight, news of the Queen celebrating her 50th anniversary by travelling all over the Uk. I see her 1st leg of the journey was by the Royal Train. Can anybody advise details of the train being used on this anniversary and its schedule? Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 08:59 #30483 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:On Oz TV tonight, news of the Queen celebrating her 50th anniversary by travelling all over the Uk. I see her 1st leg of the journey was by the Royal Train. Can anybody advise details of the train being used on this anniversary and its schedule?As I understand it yesterday's trip to Leicester was via an EMT HST in public service from St Pancras. I'm not sure exactly which train it was (nor return). It appears that use of the actual Royal Train is quite rare these days- shame in my view. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: BarryM |
| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 09:29 #30485 | |
GoochyB
222 posts |
From comments on other forums I understand it was intended to use the royal train and stable it at Old Dalby but it got pulled earlier this week
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| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 09:48 #30486 | |
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GoodbyeMrFish
148 posts |
Your unlikley to get a schedule as its under high security. No times will apear for the royal train. Had this a few weeks ago when charlie was visiting great yarmouth. you just cant get the times for this train. It would be more than peoples jobs worth if they posted any times in relation to this train. However you might be able to find some info by searching the net for "the windsor express" Wolverton express" or Claret express". Be a detective. The royal website usually posts an itinery of some trips. E.G They will be here by such a time etc. i knew prince charles had to be in yarmouth by 10 on that day. so i worked out i should see the train between 8 and half 9 and low and behold it did. You wont be able to find out which route it will take either. Log in to reply |
| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 10:11 #30487 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
I don't know whether it's still the case, but instructions (including timings ) for a "Royal" always used to be in a specially printed notice (often running to 20 or 30 pages). Each copy was individually numbered and had to be signed for, and every one had to be returned and accounted for. "private & Not for Publication" was usually regarded as a highly flexible formula (clearly still is, given the number of WTTs & such that appear on the market, but for one of those notices it was very strictly applied!
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| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 13:55 #30490 | |
58050
2659 posts |
Details of the Royal Train are as mentioned earlier regarded as very high security. The train doesn't even appear on TOPS, nor is there a schedule for the train TOPS either. The locomotives booked to work the train aren't allocated on TOPS. The locomotive is transferred on TOPS to the location where ot is booked to go, or a location nearby. In the BR days prior to privatisation the train used run under various codenames such as 'Deepdene' or 'The Grove' etc etc depending on whoever was traveling on it. During my time at Liverpool Street Regional Control Office as Senior Traction Controller for the region I had to sign a document that was kept at all times by the Deputy Chief Controller(DCC) in a brown plain A4 sized envelope with 'TOP SECRET' stamped across it in red ink. I had to read the instructions regarding the train & looking at the printed schedule for the train, then sign it to say I had read & understood the contents & put the information back in the envelope & hand it back to the DCC. You had to read it there in front of him, you couldn't take the notice back to your desk & read it there. I had to do this quite a number of times between 1990 - 1994 as the Royal family travelled quite of ten to Sandringham & the train used to run from Liverpool Street station to King's Lynn. The train is timed like a military operation. The train will be ready in the designated platform & the depature signal will already be showing a green aspect when the Queen arrives. She is met by the station manager who used to waer a bowler hat for the occasion. As soon as the royal party are on the train the 'TRTS' is given & the train pulls out. The driver working the train isn't allowed out of the driving seat, if the train stops out of course then the traction inspector accompanying the driver gets out of the cab to speak to the signaller. The locomotive allocated to pull the train is usually re=painted & looks in ex-works condition. There are also about 4 or 5 other locomotives placed at strategic point to act as 'rescue' locos if the train breaks down anywhere. At one time there used to be a light locomotive that would depart a few minutes in front of the royal train to make sure there were no obstructions placed on the track for the royal train to hit, but this doesn't happen today. The train when running has a strict timetable to run at. It doesn't travel at the linespeed either. When I was Trainsmaster at Bescot we had about 6 senior drivers who were rostered to work the royal train. When they booked on duty a taxi would take them to a pre-determined point where a Police car would then pick the driver up & convey him to the designated point where he was to relieve the train & the same proceedure was used for the driver on the train being relieved. If the royal tain was running early it would slow down to even 5 mph to lose time. It HAD to arrive at its destination at the exact minute it was booked for. There was no running early with it & hence arriving early. They would be a symbol painted on the platform where the driver would have to stop the train with his cab level with the symbol, which would mean the door the Queen or Royal family would exit the train would be in line with the red carpet. Some locomotives working the royal train would also have an orange dot painted on the roof so the police helicopter shadowing the train would be able to identify the royal train more easily. Believe you me from someone who has had nearly 10 years of dealing with this train, it isn't something you look forward to. As regards where the train was kept. It is kept at the former BREL workshops at Wolverton & when it used to run empty stock so to speak, it used to get the same treatment as a class 1 passenger train. Last edited: 09/03/2012 at 15:26 by 58050 Log in to reply The following users said thank you: ExDistrictDriver, Steamer, kpl455, BarryM, Josie, maxand, whitetigger, GoochyB |
| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 15:08 #30491 | |
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ExDistrictDriver
30 posts |
Thanks 58050, an excellent insight into the running of the Royal Train!
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| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 15:24 #30493 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
She used FCC's service train these days to get to Kings Lynn. I believe that the Royal Train was kettle hauled fairly recently though. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 16:21 #30497 | |
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officer dibble
409 posts |
I had a look once at the Class 67 loco pool at work, and it showed both 67005 & 67006 to be at Bounds Green T&RSMD when in fact they had both just come flying past me. Security is very much the name of the game with this train.
When in doubt - Contingency plan 2A. Someone didn't buy the milk - 2A. Someone sneezed at Swansea - 2A. A driver complains the cab is too cold - 2A. Unable to operate a HEx service 4 vice 8 - 2A. Points failure at Ipswich - 2A. Landslip at Pitlochry - 2A Log in to reply |
| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 16:36 #30498 | |
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BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
Royal Train (converying HRH Prince of Wales) recently worked to Wakefield, for renaming/rededication of 70000 Britannia, and was hauled by her with one 67 on rear. The other Royal 67 was waiting at Wakefield (not sure which station it was). As for a symbol on the platform for the driver to stop level with, prior to the running of a particular train, they measure the length of it (as not all trips use the same consist of stock). This length is then measured out on a by a senior member of the NR operating department (at least, I have seen a photo of a senior member of the operating department doing it), and on the day, a Handsignaller stands at the point where the driver should stop, displaying a yellow hand signal. The driver should then stop with his cab door level with the flag. The drivers that drive the train are fairly regular, and have been doing it for years, and I believe are chosen not only on their driving experience and merit, but on their ability to stop within a few feet of the designated stopping point. This book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Royal-Train-Inside-Story/dp/0857331329/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331310892&sr=1-1 is quite interesting, including a history of the Royal Train, and as much operating information as they can give without compromising security, as mentioned above. Log in to reply |
| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 16:49 #30500 | |
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derbybest
274 posts |
It was Wakefield Kirkgate
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| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 19:14 #30503 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Further to the above post on the aspect of traction provided to haul the 'Royal Train' thee were dedicated 'Royal' engines & Finsbury Pak when open had 2 dedicated 'Royal Train ECS' engines. Apart from more recent times with Cl.67s & 47798 & 47799 there were other locos that frequently worked the train during the BR era. 47620 'Windsor castle' was one such loco, last time I saw it working the 'Royal Train' was in 1990 when I was working at the British railways Board at Paddington. The train was conveying 'The sultan of Brunei' & about 30 minutes before the train arrived they painted a white line along the edge of the platform. From the windows along the corridor we overlooked the platforms near the buffer stops. When the loco arrived I could see the 'orange' dot painted on the roof. This loco was a regular on 'Royal train' duties. 31404 & 31406 when based at Finsbury Park were dedicated locos to work 'Royal Train ECS' duties between London king's Cross & Ferme Park carriage sidings only.
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| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 19:54 #30505 | |
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ipswich
247 posts |
just a note to pascal when prince charles went from great yarmouth and passed peterborough the driver changed but they didnt escort the driver away, i would have thought police Etc would have been present at the station aswell but no sign of one?? normal or not? Log in to reply |
| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 20:05 #30506 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
If the crew change occurred at Peterborough Callum was the driver working the train into Peterborough a Peterborough based driver? If he was then he would walk to the signing on point from the station if that's where the train crew relief took place. During the 4 years I was at Bescot the drivers working the 'Royal Train' weren't relieving the train at Bescot. On one occasion a Bescot driver was booked to relieve the 'Royal Train' somewhere between Peterborough & Leicester, so the taxi took the driver to Melton Mowbray where he was then transported to where the train in a Police car & the taxi would then pick up the driver who had worked the train to the designated point. Even though there maybe no driver on the engine there is still a traction inspector on the engine as well as a maintenance fitter at all times.
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| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 20:10 #30507 | |
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ipswich
247 posts |
i believe he wasnt a peterborough driver but the relief driver was
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| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 21:49 #30508 | |
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GoodbyeMrFish
148 posts |
Ipswich, are you talking about he's recent trip? If so i beleive he didnt leave yarmouth on the train the train went back to peterborough as an ecs movement.
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| Re: Royal Train 09/03/2012 at 23:21 #30509 | |
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BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
Is anyone aware if all AHBs on the route still need to be "guarded" by a Policeman?
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| Re: Royal Train 10/03/2012 at 20:09 #30522 | |
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ipswich
247 posts |
i am yes on about his recent trip
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| Re: Royal Train 11/03/2012 at 17:37 #30545 | |
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John 23
176 posts |
Interesting to hear of the collection of numbered copies of the operating notice. Parts of an Operating Notice for a GWR running of a Royal Train in 1947 appear in A R Kingdom's history of the Ashburton Branch, now long out of print. Quaint references to the two royal saloons as "LM&SR Company's stock". The branch was used as an overnight stabling point for such excursions for many years apparantly, until the brach closed. Log in to reply |
| Re: Royal Train 12/03/2012 at 10:45 #30559 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
Having said all which, there are also a number of very good stories about Royals that suggest things didn't always go according to plan. Anything from Prince Phillip upsetting things to novel ways of dealing with signal failures. One that went down to the operating department took place at Waterloo, where everyone was lined up to greet an arrival at (I think) platform 12. The train duly drew in, quietly and gently so as not to upset the royal personage waiting to descend onto the red carpet the moment the train stopped... behind them all on No. 13!  (However it didn't do the poor bobby that much harm, as he eventually retired as Waterloo Area Movements Inspector.)For the signal failure, read Gerry Fiennes "I Tried to Run a Railway". I also heard about it from one of the signalmen involved, when I was a station manager on that patch. Prince Phillip could usually be relied upon; a former Station Manager responsible for Tattenham Corner (the nearest station for Epsom Racecourse & the Derby) told how their regular Royal visitor used to be dealt with (HM being very fond of the horses and usually making a proper official day out of it). In those days the station still had a gravel platform. The station building was partway down the platform and all was arranged so the red carpet led straight from Her saloon to the exit; curtains for the booking office windows were kept in the SM's office & put up for the big day, and the London end and platform side of the station building always got a coat of paint when She was coming. On the big day, a phalanx of railway officials (bowler hatted every one) and civic dignitaries were all lined up, toes to the edge of the red carpet, before the train came in sight, whereupon a flunkey walked down the line & polished all signs of dust off their shoes. There was then the usual ritual of a senior bod accompanying HM, introducing her formally to the assempbled worthies. Then one day, Phillip suggested to the Station Manager that they should go for a walk... not the sort of invitation you decline (after all the Tower of London isn't that far off). So they strolled down towards the buffers. And turned around when they got there, and Phil couldn't miss that end of the station building with old paint gently peeling. "I thought you did that," quoth he; the station building was never specially painted for a royal visit again! Log in to reply |
| Re: Royal Train 12/03/2012 at 17:00 #30564 | |
Steamer
3985 posts 
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" said:For the signal failure, read Gerry Fiennes "I Tried to Run a Railway". I also heard about it from one of the signalmen involved, when I was a station manager on that patch.Also 'Signalman's Morning' by Adrian Vaughan, there's a story of when the Royal Train was stabled at Uffington. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Re: Royal Train 09/07/2012 at 14:52 #33759 | |
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guidomcc
246 posts |
We were told in school today that in 1940 King George spent the night in a carriage in Romsey Up Sidings, on his way between Devonport and Portsmouth naval bases. Not the most secure of places to spend the night surely?!
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| Re: Royal Train 09/07/2012 at 16:36 #33761 | |
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Steamer
3985 posts
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" said:We were told in school today that in 1940 King George spent the night in a carriage in Romsey Up Sidings, on his way between Devonport and Portsmouth naval bases. Not the most secure of places to spend the night surely?!Looking at Google maps, Romsey seems quite rural- which is the safest place to be during wartime, especially at night. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 09/07/2012 at 16:37 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| Re: Royal Train 09/07/2012 at 16:40 #33762 | |
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guidomcc
246 posts |
I have realised what the confusion is - we were told that he was 'kept' in Romsey Up Yard, which looking at photos is considerably bigger than the short GF-operated single overgrown siding that makes up the present day Romsey Up Sidings that I assumed that they were referring to. 
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