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| Carlisle Bugs 17/07/2012 at 19:29 #34117 | |
Ray
211 posts 
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Judging from NEScot sim then we will all be in for a very long wait - that is all except those who attended the meet. I always said these meets had a sting in their tails.
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| Carlisle Bugs 17/07/2012 at 19:45 #34118 | |
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GoodbyeMrFish
148 posts |
I wouldn't be too disheartened (if thats a word) about it. I can't wait for the sim to be released, But isn't it better if they iron out the bugs before a general release? I think it will be well worth the wait. Just the screen shots in this thread have got me excited about it 
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| Carlisle Bugs 17/07/2012 at 19:51 #34120 | |
58050
2659 posts
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Tom will release the sim when he is good & ready. Today I've added nearly 20 additional trains to the timetable which raised some issues that weren't found before. They have just been corrected. Believe you me Tom & the rest of us are working as fast as we can to get it sorted for a final release, otherwise users will only bombard the forum with out-standing issues. I doubt that the wait will be as long as NE Scotland.
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| Carlisle Bugs 17/07/2012 at 19:52 #34121 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
Quote:Judging from NEScot sim then we will all be in for a very long wait - that is all except those who attended the meet. I always said these meets had a sting in their tails.I'm not entirely in agreement with you there. I feel thats a little unfair on both myself and Peter. This is something I do in my spare time and have to fit in around work and sleep. The version released at the sim was playable except for a few minor bugs. Some where uncovered at the meet, mostly as a result of some fixes breaking others towards the end of the alpha phase and these not being picked up by either myself or my courageous and diligent band of testers. There where also bugs I was fully aware of prior to going to Newcastle. In the end there wasn't really time to fix everything as I spent more time facilitating production of the 1979 WTT (which was started at the end of January and was worked on pretty much every day in between) and bashing the bigger showstoppers out of the way. The way I see it I'd rather release a version that has less of the annoying faults present that will confuse users (there is alot happening in the sim you can't see) than bow to any pressure to get it out right here and now. It is my full intention to release as soon as enough bugs are fixed and tested. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Josie, Signalhunter |
| Carlisle Bugs 17/07/2012 at 20:00 #34122 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:Judging from NEScot sim then we will all be in for a very long wait - that is all except those who attended the meet. I always said these meets had a sting in their tails.The meet one was time limited. However, you will be pleased to know that since then I've not released any Betas at meets. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Last edited: 17/07/2012 at 20:08 by Peter Bennet Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jc92 |
| Carlisle Bugs 17/07/2012 at 21:05 #34123 | |
postal
5264 posts
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" said:" said:i.e. If people start putting on too much pressure, the developer decides he doesn't need the hassle and pulls up the drawbridge. I hope this doesn't happen with Tom, but I would ask (nicely) that people think before they post, otherwise we will all suffer in the long run.Judging from NEScot sim then we will all be in for a very long wait - that is all except those who attended the meet. I always said these meets had a sting in their tails.The meet one was time limited. However, you will be pleased to know that since then I've not released any Betas at meets. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Jan, delticfan, Knockpiker |
| Carlisle Bugs 17/07/2012 at 22:21 #34127 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
" said:Been working through the tt that we were playing on saturday, started again and running a tuesday this time. Definately a challenging timetable pascal.1. The RR and RA signals should be approach controlled if certain conditions with the next signal. A problem with SCE144 was noted at the meet which has since been fixed. 2. The entrance cursors are a noted problem and have been fixed. 3. Had 8L42 reached it's booked departure time? It won't take the token until it is due to leave. To hopefully sort the problem with trains that don't get routed into the DGL I have added the location onto the Down main. Trains will still call wrong route but if you force it to take that route the timetable should now step up. That might have contributed to the problem. 4. This is a hard one to recreate. Do you have a save for this? 5. Thanks for the save - bug raised. I can see what is causing it and will attend to it. 6. The Issue with TORR at Quintinshill was raised at the meet and this has since been fixed. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 17/07/2012 at 23:56 #34128 | |
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y10g9
895 posts |
" said:Cheers for the reply Tom 1. Ok it might just be my misunderstanding of how the rr signals work then, but this problem does go away once the rr signals have had their route cancled and rekeyed 2. Good, don't know whether you've got it noted but i had found another one today when i was continuing the game today (Post number 20 in this thread) 3. 8L42 had reached its departure tim as it was sat at the red signal, i had forgotten to route him into the loop, didn't realises until afterwards, so stepped the tt up and he changed from 8l42 to 8l42POSS without a problem. 4. Save game attached and is instantly recreatable [attachment=429]Bug4gamesave.SSG[/attachment] 5. Good to hear that its solvable 6. Good to hear thats been reaised already. Did you also see the bug i picked up with floriston LC? Save game for that is attached if you need it (bug 8 save game). Keep up the good work though Tom, I do hope that these people who are impatient and wanted the sim last year (apsolutely full of bugs which they would only then just go and complain about whys it been released with so many bugs in it making it unplayable) rather than when your happy that its ready for release don't get you down and make you shelve the project, or take it fully out of the public eyes mate. I shall continue to play the sim through though and will let you know of anything else that i find thats new to me. Regards Nathan Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 19/07/2012 at 17:08 #34171 | |
Steamer
3984 posts |
Looking like a good Sim, can't wait! Just looking at the screenshot: What do the H and RR buttons near some signals do? What are conditional aspects? "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 19/07/2012 at 18:12 #34172 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:Looking like a good Sim, can't wait!The "H" buttons you refer to are the representation of hot axle box detectors. They do not function in the sim. The "RR" buttons are to do with the conditional aspects, someone else will probably give you a better explanation of what they are. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| Carlisle Bugs 19/07/2012 at 23:59 #34173 | |
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Josie
310 posts |
The emergency replacement buttons next to signals CE89 and CE94 (DM and UM at Low Gill) don't work - right-clicking behaves as though they're not there. Also I've been playing around with Low Gill frame. It can be released even though it's out of use, and reversing lever 3 (points 2A and 2B) seems to get it stuck there - I can't work out how to normalise it again, and hence how to lock the frame. (I don't think I managed to say it at the meet but thank you so much for this sim! It's shaping up to be really excellent.) Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 20/07/2012 at 08:10 #34175 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:" said:Following an unrelated discussion elsewhere I’ve realised that NESCOT was not a BETA at the meet, it was something that worked sufficiently well to be made available for that purpose alone: but it was not finished. For that reason it was time-limited and withdrawn from download shortly after. Now, some two and a bit years later, I think it has only just reached BETA status in the last month.Judging from NEScot sim then we will all be in for a very long wait - that is all except those who attended the meet. I always said these meets had a sting in their tails.The meet one was time limited. However, you will be pleased to know that since then I've not released any Betas at meets. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 20/07/2012 at 15:28 #34182 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
Thanks for that Josie, The Issue was picked up and fixed earlier on this week. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 13:47 #34195 | |
agilchrist
258 posts |
Having just about finished the 79 tt now I find the sim excellent and a challenge. Its quirky because of the bugs others have reported but those are all fixable. The 79-80TT is quite special in both a good and bad way, good that it is busy but bad that it relies too much on things being perfect scenario and there are too many conflicts (not related to the EC diversion) and a few noticeable freight trains leaping over the top of passenger trains according to their timetables, I think (personal opinion) getting the TT to work is better than making sure the freights are all the correct lengths. I think others have pointed out the delays which have been built into the TT which makes this difficult to use with delays and things seemed to go badly wrong after 4am. One thing that is painful is the lack of REV at CE280 and LE have to go into Upperby Yard and re-enter the sim some taking upto 20 minutes, this doesn't make sense for a RR move. If your up for a challenge then overall this TT is a good piece of work but you have to work at it for things to go smoothly. I look forward to the sim being released, and good work Tom and team for the effort so far. Blessed are the true believers, for only they shall walk the Path, and they shall be welcomed unto the realm of the Ori and made as one with Them. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 14:04 #34196 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
" said:however if that is the timetable as supplied in real life, then people need to deal with it as the real signalman would have and regulate those conflicting freights appropriately. not everything is planned perfectly in real life "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 14:29 #34199 | |
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agilchrist
258 posts |
[/quote] however if that is the timetable as supplied in real life, then people need to deal with it as the real signalman would have and regulate those conflicting freights appropriately. not everything is planned perfectly in real life[/quote] You know me Joe, perfection is not expected but some sense of logic. Its not the WTT which has the logic missing its the additional parts necessary to make the WTT work that are odd. A simple example is one train enters Carnforth on time, a class 6 freight followed 4 mins later by an on time class 1 which is due at Oxenholme before the freight, I cant regulate that until Oxenholme at the earliest but the loop is too short, regulation mistakes used to be made but when a sim is in perfect mode then you don't expect that. I suppose expect the unexpected, it was fine anyway we had a trolley incident with the passenger train at Oxenholme anyway. Blessed are the true believers, for only they shall walk the Path, and they shall be welcomed unto the realm of the Ori and made as one with Them. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 15:47 #34202 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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A couple of points that need to be made clear to those playing the 79-80 tt for Carlisle. 1. The lengths of all the freight trains are as per the freight trains loads books for May 1979 & May 1980. 2. When I started writing this timetable & we (AndyG, TomOF, jc92, Derbybest & myself) it soon became clear that a major problem was the time allowed for voupling & uncoupling of locos & stock. It was way too long. This had a serious impact & until such time it gets changed to 1 minute instead of the 4 minutes the program is currently set at, this will affect the performance of any heritage timetable written where trains are split or joined at major stations. We found it was impossible to depart 1M13 right time no matter how we timetabled it due the the amount of shunting that had to be carried out. This was raised with the sim author & thanks to AndyG's endeavors we reached the situation we see now in the timetable. There has been some alterations done to trains at Carlisle. 2. The other point you make Alan in respect of freight trains entering a sim in front of a class 1 express is something that could be added at some point in the future whereby the sim xhecks to see if any other trains are due to enter at the same point within 'z' number of minutes & the sim then enters trains in order of classification for the want of a better word. We had the same problem with the Sheffield 83/84 timetable. At present I am currently running a single player test on the latest timetable files from John(postal) on the latest sim version of Carlisle from Tom. I spent all day yesterday from about 1100 - 2100 testing & have carried on today. So far I'm up to 0930 & alot of the issues raised in the forum have been fixed, but not all. So all I can say in an old BR quote of the time 'WE'RE GETTING THERE'. As John(postal) & I are testing the timetable/sim to destruction. Some background information on the Carlisle sim. The station working book I used was previously owned by W.J. Taylor who was a signaler at Carlisle PSB. Tom did tell me that this sim was done in his honor as he was the signaler on Centre panel the night that freightliner train ran away on the Goods Lines & were it not for his actions the subsequent derailment & crash would have been alot worse. Sadly Mr. Taylor is no longer with us these days, although all the ECML diversions were written in the station working book by him due to the Penmanshiel Tunnel collapse. Carlisle Kingmoor Yard was the largest marshaling yard on the BR network & as a result the freight traffic was very heavy. In fact not all the freight train services have yet been entered to complete the timetable. That will have to wait till I've been to the NRM & go through one missing WTT which I don't have, however the timetable as is is about 95% complete. But thanks for your criticism Chris its very much appreciated, you can't get it right all the time. In fact if we did it would be very clinical in its running. Last edited: 21/07/2012 at 16:10 by 58050 Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 16:10 #34203 | |
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postal
5264 posts
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I know it doesn't add anything to the Carlisle TT debate, but don't forget that in any sim using any of the levels of difficulty where the sim code is injecting random delays/earlies into the TT the Class 6 in front of a Class 1 is likely to happen in any event. It also means that the Class 1 in this TT could easily enter in front of the "earlier" Class 6 because the Class 6 is later or less early than the Class 1. It doesn't detract from the comments agilchrist has made about this TT but it is not a foolproof solution just to go through the TT and weed out these particular conflicts as the sim could easily put them back when you start it running. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 18:25 #34210 | |
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Stanyon
141 posts |
is anyone creating a Timetable for carlisle based on this month this year, as i have started one and would like to know weather its worth continuing, also my version is not the latest but i believe the tt will be transferable is this correct?
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| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 19:03 #34212 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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A modern era timetable has been written for Carlisle, although I'm led to believe it wasn't finished, hence the reason it wasn't used at Newcastle. As regards to what year exactly I don't know. Tom would be the best person to ask as this is something I personally have any interest in.
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| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 19:08 #34213 | |
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Stanyon
141 posts |
i know there is a 2008 tt thats what im playing but thought i would start a 19th july 2012 tt so far all passenger trains to and from newcastle are in the sim ex. scotrail services.
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| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 19:34 #34217 | |
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jc92
3685 posts |
" said:A modern era timetable has been written for Carlisle, although I'm led to believe it wasn't finished, hence the reason it wasn't used at Newcastle. As regards to what year exactly I don't know. Tom would be the best person to ask as this is something I personally have any interest in.its a oct 2009 timetable as per the other chainable timetables "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 19:40 #34218 | |
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NorthSig
27 posts |
Tom, I wasn't at the meet so this isn't based on actual usage of the beta, just from the detailed image that someone posted earlier last week. I've only looked at the ERS and a few other simple things so far against a panel tiling diagram from around 2003/2004. So far I've noted the following: 1. CE33 missing its ERS. 2. You show ERS on the following signals which my diagrams don't: CE89, CE94, CE216, CE224, CE225. 3. Oxenholme spelt wrong. 4. Shap summit between CE129/CE133 is labelled as 'Siding' on the panel diagram and not a DGL. 5. Plumpton north emergency crossover is missing (released by F929 to UGL and F930 to UM). 6. Southwaite crossovers should be the opposite way; the trailing one should be at the south. 7. Motherwell fringe is slightly incorrect. For the 1980s there should be three Carlisle signals CE543, CE545 and CE547 on the down and CE546, CE544 and CE542 on the Up. CE547 and CE546 were removed as part of the WC upgrade and the other signals re-positioned. Bear in mind the caveats - the screenshot was of the 1980s and the diagrams I worked off are from the mid 2000s. There's one or two things I noted that I'm not reporting now as these only apply to more modern times (eg the additional sub on CE46 reading towards CE53) and as the image was not of 'current day' I can't say whether that's included or not in the sim if you've got a more modern era as a simulation option. Regardless, I'll have a more detailed gander over the 1980s image and the diagrams over the next few days and post back on any more I find. Looks like a cracking sim whatever! Keep up the good work sir! DanB. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 20:11 #34221 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
" said:" said:There are 2 modern TTs in the making:-A modern era timetable has been written for Carlisle, although I'm led to believe it wasn't finished, hence the reason it wasn't used at Newcastle. As regards to what year exactly I don't know. Tom would be the best person to ask as this is something I personally have any interest in.its a oct 2009 timetable as per the other chainable timetables a) 2008 by TomOF (was used at the meet with a 0700 start); b) 15/10/2009 by Sacro (still WiP), so will be compatible with the others in that set. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle Bugs 21/07/2012 at 23:50 #34229 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
Hi Northsig, thanks for that. regarding the missing signals, they do exist in the data but arent drawn on the sim. I was a bit confused over why they where not there. I may or may not choose to do something with them depending on time. The EGFS where added for completeness but will be hidden on the next public build. Thats because there is no reliable solution for single line working currently built in to the sim. Adding this feature will unduly delay the release onto the forum. Also the spelling mistake for Oxenholme was corrected after the sim meet. The Sub of SCE46 was taken out as I was under the impression that permissive moves are not permitted into P3, it is however shown on the panel (call on to the down main perhaps?) Log in to reply |
