Dunblane down slot / Greenloaning DGL

Let's get this right: swinging points in advance of the home signal gave a clearing point violation?

It wouldn't necessarily be so in real life. The (G)WR was very particular about not permitting facing points within the clearing point to be altered until after an approaching train had come to a stand. The LMR - certainly the former MR - permitted it (there's a GA instruction that refers to it so presumably it happened elsewhere too). Typically, there's an inconsistency - a literal reading of the Block Regs supports the GW interpretation but the GA supports the more liberal view; there were locations on the MR where it would have been impossibe to work the traffic if the Block Regs had been followed too literally.

I don't know what ScR practice was; it may be they were Block Reg literalists like the GW, in which case the violation would be absolutely correct. I wonder if Peter had a chance to see the actual working at Greenloaning? It would be easy to go weeks without this arising these days, so he may not have done.

after all, what's the chance of the points failing halfway and the approaching train running past the signal and going on far enough, and fast enough, to cause a problem?

" said:

after all, what's the chance of the points failing halfway and the approaching train running past the signal and going on far enough, and fast enough, to cause a problem?

This is the logic behind swinging overlaps on TCB. While I haven't delved through the manuals in detail, it would seem that the same logic applies to AB as well - the clearing point is just another kind of overlap.

So much so that Bewdley North (SVR, but very much based on WR practice) had a special authority in the footnotes - because the clearing point was halfway along the down main - single line crossover, it was permitted to unlock & move the Xover provided Train Entering Section had not been received from the South box.

In the end, the only way to be sure what the situation is at Greenloaning is to ask the signalmen who actually work the box (or strike lucky and be there to see it happen). Until then (and perhaps after as well, if they do use the stricter interpretation) the only way is to bring the approaching train to a stand at the home before setting the road into the loop.

an interesting point to note is that a lot of panels allow points to be swung in front of trains. take wincobank junction as an example, say the overlap from S199 on the down main has its overlap set across the junction towards P2. if the signaller sets a route from meadowhall P3, the overlap (and points within it) are thrown across to P4.

an interesting point to note is that a lot of panels allow points to be swung in front of trains. take wincobank junction as an example, say the overlap from S199 on the down main has its overlap set across the junction towards P2. if the signaller sets a route from meadowhall P3, the overlap (and points within it) are thrown across to P4.

I have come across a second issue with the Greenloaning loops (as per the original post), and that is if a goods train is sitting in the DGL at Greenloaning (waiting at shunt signal GL16), swinging the points to let it leave the loop causes a “Clearing point violation at Inverkeillor 6[‽]”. I have had a look at the clearing points document in the wiki and those points are not covered by any of the clearing points in the Greenloaning area (besides, I thought if trains were stationary then the clearing points no longer applied). Is there a problem there or am I misunderstanding the idea of the clearing points? In any case, the violation occurs at Greenloaning, not Inverkeillor

Hi all, I wonder if you can help me.

I have come across a second issue with the Greenloaning loops (as per the original post), and that is if a goods train is sitting in the DGL at Greenloaning (waiting at shunt signal GL16), swinging the points to let it leave the loop causes a “Clearing point violation at Inverkeillor 6[‽]”. I have had a look at the clearing points document in the wiki and those points are not covered by any of the clearing points in the Greenloaning area (besides, I thought if trains were stationary then the clearing points no longer applied). Is there a problem there or am I misunderstanding the idea of the clearing points? In any case, the violation occurs at Greenloaning, not Inverkeillor.

I am not sure if it is related, by I also got a message saying there was a “Clearing point violation at Inverkeillor 12” during the whole process of trying to get the goods train into the loop and allowing a passenger train to pass. There were trains in the Inverkeillor region at the time, but they were simply passing each other on adjacent lines, so I cannot see where the violation occurred.

Sorry about the long post.

Gwasanaethau (Mark).

Have you accepted a train from Dunblane? If so, I've made a mistake writing the document. If not, something else must be at work.

Have checked the data and can see nothing that links Greenloaning to the report you got.

Peter

" said:

Have you accepted a train from Dunblane? If so, I've made a mistake writing the document. If not, something else must be at work.

At the point where the message about the clearing point violation appeared, I had the goods train stationary in the loop and a passenger train had already passed the loop and was well on its way to Blackford. There was nothing coming from Dunblane at that moment.


" said:

Have checked the data and can see nothing that links Greenloaning to the report you got.

Peter

I have attached an SSG save file for you if it helps. If you try swinging the points on the exit to the loop (PGL17B I believe), the message I described earlier pops up…