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| 5H0/5E02 marylebone 08/08/2013 at 20:14 #48130 | |
jc92
3690 posts 
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whats the purpose of this movement in the early morning? wembley - marylebone - wembley
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| 5H0/5E02 marylebone 08/08/2013 at 20:43 #48132 | |
guyh
54 posts |
As it happens, I don't think we ever ran those in this timetable, but might have had the paths in the timetable as a leftover from a previous timetable (or previous idea at least). I'm sure there was a brief time in history when we did run this idea though. The point was that the driver on nights at Wembley Depot (a Marylebone driver) can only bring off one train, which can't be longer than 11 vehicles as that is the longest train to fit into Marylebone (wall siding). There is also an agreement that drivers will not book on at Marylebone before a certain time in the morning, by which time it is getting a bit late to get to Wembley to bring the next stocks off. The 5Hxx/5Exx train was basically a "taxi" in train terms to go to London, pick up a couple of drivers, then return with them to Wembley - cheaper (slightly) and quicker (by far) than an actual taxi. We played with a few ideas, like bringing in a long train, then taking 2-cars back to Wembley to couple up to another 7 or 8 vehicles; doing the same but taking another driver back, etc.; same but the night driver booking off when he arrived and one of the fresh drivers driving the taxi-train back. In the end we went with having two drivers on nights at Wembley Depot. The current arrangement (May '13) is that the night driver brings one set of stock back for 3 trains; there's another set of stock that stays in Marylebone overnight to form the first departure, and that leaves early enough for a couple of drivers to travel to Wembley Stadium and walk to the depot to work the remaining departures from Wembley. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: GeoffM, jc92 |
| 5H0/5E02 marylebone 08/08/2013 at 20:48 #48133 | |
GeoffM
6377 posts |
" said:cheaper (slightly) [..] than an actual taxi.Which then leads one to wonder how much it costs to run such a train in terms of track access charges, MPG on the diesel, etc? Which is probably something you're not at liberty to divulge on a public forum! SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| 5H0/5E02 marylebone 08/08/2013 at 20:58 #48134 | |
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guyh
54 posts |
Yes, unfortunately I can't talk too much about that without getting into matters which we would consider commercially sensitive.
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| 5H0/5E02 marylebone 08/08/2013 at 21:39 #48138 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
However as Network Rail freely publish the Track Access Charge rates, and assuming Wembley LMD is about 5.5 miles from Marylebone station We get the following costs per unit per single trip, just in access charges. Class 165 @ 6.12p per mile - 33.67p Class 166 @ 6.44p per mile - 35.42p Class 168 @ 6.65p per mile - 36.58p "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Last edited: 08/08/2013 at 21:40 by headshot119 Log in to reply |
| 5H0/5E02 marylebone 08/08/2013 at 21:39 #48139 | |
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GeoffM
6377 posts |
Thought as much! CSX in the US advertise that they can move one ton of freight 436 miles on a single US gallon of fuel. I tried to find a clip but couldn't. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| 5H0/5E02 marylebone 08/08/2013 at 21:43 #48140 | |
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GeoffM
6377 posts |
" said:However as Network Rail freely publish the Track Access Charge rates, and assuming Wembley LMD is about 5.5 miles from Marylebone station We get the following costs per unit per single trip, just in access charges.Thanks, but you do need to multiply that by the number of vehicles too, so let's say about £3.50 for ten cars each way. Can't imagine much diesel for such a trip, so I can see how it would work out less than a taxi! SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| 5H0/5E02 marylebone 08/08/2013 at 23:08 #48145 | |
dmaze
88 posts |
" said:CSX in the US advertise that they can move one ton of freight 436 miles on a single US gallon of fuel.CSX widely advertises that, I've seen similar numbers suggested elsewhere. (Also remember that the big US railroads run very long trains by British standards; 9,000-foot sidings and 100-car trains are quite common, though you also need multiple locomotives on those trains. And the CSX number is a system-wide average so some trains do better and some worse.) For passenger service, I remember hearing that diesel-locomotive-hauled service burned about 2 gallons per mile (this paper describes potential DMU service on a Boston commuter rail line and claims 2.8 gallons per mile for locomotive-hauled service and, depending on configuration, 0.6 to 3.9 gallons per mile for DMUs). If our hypothetical 5.5-mile trip uses a single self-propelled car it could require upwards of 3 gallons of fuel, which is definitely a measurable cost. Log in to reply |
| 5H0/5E02 marylebone 09/08/2013 at 05:22 #48149 | |
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GeoffM
6377 posts |
Thanks, but two slight variations on those figures: those are US gallons; also, US trains tend to be a lot heavier than European/Asian equivalents, due to crashworthiness standards (a hotly debated topic elsewhere). But it did lead me to find a figure of 0.58kg/km for a class 165 (2-car; 75mph) in this archived report (PDF) from the DfT. I did come up with an mpg from that but I'll let somebody else do the arithmetic lest I get it wrong somewhere! SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| 5H0/5E02 marylebone 09/08/2013 at 06:02 #48151 | |
AndyG
1842 posts
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" said:But it did lead me to find a figure of 0.58kg/km for a class 165 (2-car; 75mph) in this archived report (PDF) from the DfT. I did come up with an mpg from that but I'll let somebody else do the arithmetic lest I get it wrong somewhere!Using fuel density of 0.832 kg/l, 4.546 l/gallon and 1.609 km/mile, I come up with: 0.58kg/km = 0.58/0.832 = 0.673 l/km; 0.673l/km = 0.673*1.609 = 1.08 l/mile; 1.08l/m = 1.081/4.546 = 0.24 (UK)gallons/mile or 4.2 mpg Seems a bit high as a 40 ton HGV will use say 6 mpg and that's on rubber not steel wheels. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Last edited: 09/08/2013 at 06:07 by AndyG Log in to reply |
| 5H0/5E02 marylebone 16/08/2013 at 18:43 #48510 | |
postal
5265 posts |
" said:" said:A paper in the latest edition of the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport magazine quotes a typical consumption of 8 - 10 mpg for a road vehicle carrying 2 TEU (Twenty-Foot Equivalent Units) so that is 2 x 20ft container or 1 x 40 ft container. It quotes typical rail consumption for a train carrying 40 TEU of 1 mpg. The author deduces that rail uses about 30% to 35% of the fuel road would use for the same movements.But it did lead me to find a figure of 0.58kg/km for a class 165 (2-car; 75mph) in this archived report (PDF) from the DfT. I did come up with an mpg from that but I'll let somebody else do the arithmetic lest I get it wrong somewhere!Using fuel density of 0.832 kg/l, 4.546 l/gallon and 1.609 km/mile, I come up with: “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 16/08/2013 at 18:44 by postal Log in to reply |