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Our old friend ARS 24/06/2014 at 12:00 #61975 | |
northroad
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Another question regarding our old friend the ARS system. Whilst doing a bit of testing for a Victoria Central 1975 timetable that I am writing, (it's taking for ever), I notice that the ARS is performing well and coping with all the trains that I have loaded so far from the rather large WTT. However, I note that the Streatham South Junction location does seem to cause it a bit of trouble. At times I have two services heading towards the junction i.e. a 2T** service from West Croydon to Blackfriars and a 2K** service from Epsom to Victoria or London Bridge via Mitcham Junction. Although the West Croydon service is always timed through the junction some two or three minutes later than the service from Epsom the ARS always seems to give this West Croydon service precedence. This causes the Epsom service to be delayed by some three or four minutes although plenty of time to get into Victoria and do the turn around for it's next service. 1. Is there anyway of getting ARS to recognise the fact that it should be setting the other way round by using the timetable timings? 2. Knowing that ARS is not perfect by any means does this happen on the real panel with the same consequence, especially at Streatham South Junction? Geoff Last edited: 24/06/2014 at 12:01 by northroad Log in to reply |
Our old friend ARS 24/06/2014 at 12:03 #61976 | |
Forest Pines
![]() 525 posts |
The real panel doesn't have ARS, does it? Moreover as I understand it SimSig's ARS algorithms are different to those used in real world signalling installations, which therefore have different but similar problems of their own. Log in to reply |
Our old friend ARS 24/06/2014 at 12:03 #61977 | |
DriverCurran
![]() 685 posts |
" said:Another question regarding our old friend the ARS system.The ARS was added to assist the end user, the real signallers operate this entire area without any form of ARS available. Paul You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
Our old friend ARS 24/06/2014 at 12:17 #61978 | |
postal
![]() 5216 posts |
" said:Another question regarding our old friend the ARS system.Another thing to remember about SimSig ARS is that the ARS works on the data from trains in sim. If a train has not yet entered, then the ARS doesn't take it into account and may well set a conflicting route for a later train which is already in sim from another entry point (or created by a Next activity). “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
Our old friend ARS 24/06/2014 at 15:19 #61982 | |
GeoffM
![]() 6344 posts |
" said:1. Is there anyway of getting ARS to recognise the fact that it should be setting the other way round by using the timetable timings?Tweaking the times would possibly do it but not ideal by any means. I've had this junction reported before so I'll see if there's some factor confusing it. " said: 2. Knowing that ARS is not perfect by any means does this happen on the real panel with the same consequence, especially at Streatham South Junction?As FP says, the real panel doesn't have ARS in this case. But speaking generally, yes, signallers get to know the usual problem areas and use reminders or turn off the subareas. Plus there's a special delay attribution code in TRUST for ARS mis-regulation. " said: Moreover as I understand it SimSig's ARS algorithms are different to those used in real world signalling installations, which therefore have different but similar problems of their own.Same principles; different sets of code. " said: Another thing to remember about SimSig ARS is that the ARS works on the data from trains in sim. If a train has not yet entered, then the ARS doesn't take it into account and may well set a conflicting route for a later train which is already in sim from another entry point (or created by a Next activity).As per real life. The alternative is a risk that it'll hold one train in the expectation of a second train that will never appear. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
Our old friend ARS 02/07/2014 at 07:30 #62373 | |
northroad
![]() 872 posts |
" said:" said:1. Is there anyway of getting ARS to recognise the fact that it should be setting the other way round by using the timetable timings?Tweaking the times would possibly do it but not ideal by any means. I've had this junction reported before so I'll see if there's some factor confusing it. Geoff regarding Streatham South Junction. I believe that I have now resolved all the TD duplication problems that I had and all trains are now correctly referenced to the proper next workings however, when testing again (note timetable is no where near finished yet)and using the analyser during the running of the timetable I am now coming up with 'Path not found' error messages for services that are routed from Victoria Central through the North and South junctions and on to Mitcham Junction. This is despite when I am writing the timetable and validating using the tools function the timetable editor is reporting no problems and the routing is acceptable. I am attaching another saved session but it may be that the problem is contained in there somewhere and this may be of some help in resolving the issue. It seems to be wanting the SSL line to be incorporated into the timetable when the SL was acceptable during the writing of the timetable. Geoff [attachment=2537]test001.ssg[/attachment] Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
Our old friend ARS 02/07/2014 at 17:05 #62383 | |
Humorist
![]() 102 posts |
Edinburgh has the same sort of ARS problems, where one train (as I shall express it) "reaches out" to capture a route well in advance of its needs. One example was a Fife Circle train (2K** or 2G**) stopping at Glenrothes for four or five minutes where it captured the route well out on to the main route towards Kirkcaldy, bringing 1L** to an unjustified halt. However, other Fife Circle trains were much better behaved. Another was where a Class 6 freight at Craiglockhart junction captured the route on the Caley line well towards Midcalder in front of a Class 1 passenger train coming out of Haymarket and halted it for ten minutes. Yes, anticipate the conflict, and set the route in advance, or cancel the subarea, if you are quick enough, but you risk the penalty for cancelling the route in front of an approaching train. Does Edinburgh run ARS in real life? Any thoughts? Log in to reply |
Our old friend ARS 02/07/2014 at 17:24 #62384 | |
GeoffM
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" said:Does Edinburgh run ARS in real life?Yes, and not without issues IRL :whistle: SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
Our old friend ARS 02/07/2014 at 18:29 #62387 | |
Lardybiker
![]() 771 posts |
" said:Yes, anticipate the conflict, and set the route in advance, or cancel the subarea, if you are quick enough, but you risk the penalty for cancelling the route in front of an approaching train.Just to be clear here....Simply cancelling an ARS subarea (which you can do by clicking on the magenta subarea button (can;t remember if its left- or right-click)) will not cause any sort of penalty. What may cause you a penalty is if you use cancelling a route to disable an ARS subarea. Even then the cancelling of the subarea isn't what gets the penalty. Its if a train seeing an ACOA as a result of the route cancellation that causes the problem. Log in to reply |
Our old friend ARS 02/07/2014 at 18:54 #62388 | |
GW43125
![]() 495 posts |
Cancelling ARS will NEVER cancel a route AFAIK, and thus causes no penalty whatsoever. Jamie. Log in to reply |
Our old friend ARS 02/07/2014 at 20:01 #62391 | |
Peter Bennet
![]() 5377 posts |
" said:" said:Including, or so I understand, the occasional Mexican in Princes St Gdns.Does Edinburgh run ARS in real life?Yes, and not without issues IRL :whistle: Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
Our old friend ARS 02/07/2014 at 20:58 #62395 | |
AndyG
![]() 1842 posts |
" said:Yes, anticipate the conflict, and set the route in advance, or cancel the subarea, if you are quick enough, but you risk the penalty for cancelling the route in front of an approaching train.Or collar the (entry) signal to prevent the route setting until required, un-collar to let ARS set the route, and recollar for next train. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |