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| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 01:54 #67955 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
(From the manual) Quote: Appleford level crossing is manually controlled and is normally in the down position being raised only at the request of road users.I had a request from a pedestrian to raise the barriers, so I raised them. A few minutes later a train entered my area from Kennington. I waited for some confirmation that the pedestrian had arrived safely on the other side, but there being none forthcoming, I lowered the barriers anyway. Do I receive any such confirmation? Would someone please explain the procedure in a little more detail? Here are the only other threads I could find mentioning Appleford LC: Appleford Crossing, Can't lower? SwinDid - Freight train Destinations Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 04:08 #67956 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
Appleford works just like any other CCTV crossing (the barriers are lowered in time to avoid delaying an approaching train, notification hopefully received that the crossing's clear - replicating the real life process of checking the CCTV monitor - and signals cleared). The only difference is that, presumably to reduce the workload by avoiding the need to go through that cycle for every single train, the barriers are kept normally lowered, and raised only when a user wishes to cross. Once the barriers have been raised, the above process needs to be applied again - you won't be notified that the user has passed clear, only that the crossing is clear once you've lowered the barriers.
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| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 04:20 #67958 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Late Turn wrote: Quote: you won't be notified that the user has passed clear, only that the crossing is clear once you've lowered the barriers.That doesn't sound to me like true CCTV, where I should be able to check the camera view before lowering the barriers. What if I lower the barriers then get told that the crossing is blocked? I might well have lowered them (or in the case of Appleford) shut them on a school bus or a car, damaging both in the process. This doesn't make sense. Surely there should be a message notification that the crossing is clear. Appleford appears to work in the opposite way to most other LCs. Seems to me I shouldn't have to guess. At other LCs, I am informed of a blockage when I attempt to lower barriers prior to setting a route. Here, I have no concept of how much time to allow for a pedestrian/truck/herd of sheep to cross. Last edited: 17/01/2015 at 04:33 by maxand Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 04:31 #67960 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
There's no requirement to check the CCTV before starting the lowering sequence - only to ensure that the crossing's clear after the barriers have lowered and before 'crossing clear' is pressed. That said, I think most of us have a quick look before pressing 'lower' in reality (although some crossings are provided with an auto-lower facility) and keep an eye on the monitor throughout the sequence, ready to intervene if the crossing is blocked, to avoid the inconvenience of a damaged barrier and/or having to go through the sequence again. That's not simulated in Simsig though - the first you know of any obstruction, at Appleford or any other CCTV crossing, is when the barriers have finished lowering.
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| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 04:34 #67961 | |
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Hawk777
386 posts |
You seem to misunderstand Late Turn’s post—in real life, of course you can look at a camera whenever you want, but in SimSig, you can never check whether a CCTV crossing is clear before lowering the barriers. When a train is approaching, say, Red Cow in Exeter, you start the process by clicking the Lower button. You don’t check whether the crossing is clear first, you just push the lower button. Only when you come back afterwards to press the Clear button does it tell you whether everything is OK or whether you accidentally trapped a car and have to raise and relower. If I’m reading Late Turn’s post correctly, you’re intended to treat Appleford LC exactly the same way, except that you don’t need to raise the barriers after the train has passed—only when someone phones you. Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 04:38 #67962 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
I amended my previous post while you were replying. Okay, I get your point. It's still a bit unsatisfactory, but it will have to do for now. Maybe the developers could consider this a feature request ("crossing blocked" message to precede clicking Clear) for improved authenticity, plus in the case of Appleford an extra "road clear" message before lowering the barriers, since this LC works in reverse.
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| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 05:09 #67963 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
It doesn't work in reverse though - the lowering sequence, and the procedure that the signalman follows, is exactly the same as any other crossing. The only thing that's different is that it isn't routinely raised after the passage of a train, only when a user requests it. It would perhaps be slightly more authentic if the "crossing blocked" message could appear at any time during the lowering sequence, along with a 'stop' button (as in reality) to pause the sequence until the crossing becomes clear. I don't think it's appropriate to confirm that the crossing's clear before starting the sequence in any case though - if it's not, for whatever reason, it usually pays to get the yodalarms sounding to induce a sense of urgency into whatever's causing the obstruction, and the sequence can subsequently be stopped if necessary. Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 07:46 #67966 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
" said:Maybe the developers could consider this a feature request ("crossing blocked" message to precede clicking Clear) for improved authenticity,I'm not at all convinced it is "improved authenticity". A blocked crossing is far more likely to be someone who attempted to jump the lights and failed than it is to be a lorry that happened to break down on the crossing before you started to lower it. Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 08:19 #67968 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Clive wrote: Quote: A blocked crossing is far more likely to be someone who attempted to jump the lights and failed than it is to be a lorry that happened to break down on the crossing before you started to lower it.If so, that shows that the sequence in which events occur is also important. Before this gets any more off-topic, I'd like to finish this thread here now that Appleford LC has been thrashed out, and open a new one in the Feature Request section for improvements in this area: Better notification of blocked manually operated LCs Thank you all for explaining how this LC works. Last edited: 17/01/2015 at 11:27 by maxand Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 09:37 #67979 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
Max, Here are some photos taken at Appleford. View Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 11:28 #67994 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks BarryM. Is that the CCTV camera on the pole in the background, or is it just lighting?
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| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 11:49 #67997 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
" said:Thanks BarryM. Is that the CCTV camera on the pole in the background, or is it just lighting?Just lighting, the CCTV cameras can be seen on the left of this Google Streetview Edit:- and for completeness, the LC User instructions. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Last edited: 17/01/2015 at 11:53 by AndyG Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 12:15 #68002 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
" said:Maybe the developers could consider this a feature request ("crossing blocked" message to precede clicking Clear) for improved authenticity, ...That would add to your confusion, as the message would probably appear whilst you're looking anywhere but the LC in question. The act of pressing the clear button implies that the signaller (in real life) is actually looking at the CCTV. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 13:13 #68005 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks AndyG - never thought about it like that. That would solve the problem without any further modifications: EACH TIME YOU CLICK THE CLEAR BUTTON, GET INTO THE HABIT OF TAKING YOUR EYES OFF THE LC AND CHECKING THE MESSAGES BOX FOR ANY "BLOCKED CROSSING" MESSAGE (i.e., pretend it's acting as a camera screen). By doing this you can check the Messages box for the latest message at a time to suit you. Don't be in a rush to simply click Clear and set the route. Maybe I should add this to the Wiki Documentation regarding LCs? Why do I get the feeling that everyone else already does this? :blush: Last edited: 17/01/2015 at 13:15 by maxand Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 13:35 #68006 | |
Steamer
3984 posts |
" said:I don't think it's necessary. The page mentions the message and how the simulation requires them to respond, beyond that it's up to the user to find their own way of checking. Prescribing methods is essentially spoon feeding, and people don't learn as well they do when they work it out for themselves. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 17/01/2015 at 13:58 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 13:43 #68009 | |
postal
5263 posts |
" said:Thanks AndyG - never thought about it like that.I think the "Clear" roundel continues flashing even after you have clicked on it when the crossing is blocked and the signals over the crossing do not clear. If my recollection is correct, this would be the first level of notification that there is a problem and means you only need to check the message box if the roundel continues to flash. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 14:51 #68015 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
" said:" said:I have seen someone block a crossing by parking on it. Said driver was I think trying to be clever and avoid a double yellow line, but parked their car underneath the barrier. The signaller lowered the barrier until it was just clear of the car roof, then held it there.Maybe the developers could consider this a feature request ("crossing blocked" message to precede clicking Clear) for improved authenticity,I'm not at all convinced it is "improved authenticity". A blocked crossing is far more likely to be someone who attempted to jump the lights and failed than it is to be a lorry that happened to break down on the crossing before you started to lower it. This was at Wellowgate Crossing, Grimsby - the driver had parked to pop into an off-licence just by the crossing. I will admit that such an occurrence isn't likely at Apppleford! Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 14:59 #68016 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
" said:Yes that's correct 
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| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 19:54 #68024 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
" said:" said:Maybe the developers could consider this a feature request ("crossing blocked" message to precede clicking Clear) for improved authenticity,I'm not at all convinced it is "improved authenticity". A blocked crossing is far more likely to be someone who attempted to jump the lights and failed than it is to be a lorry that happened to break down on the crossing before you started to lower it. Although it's certainly not unknown for a red light jumper to end up trapped between the barriers (more likely when there's only a single barrier on each side of the line), I'd say that it's actually more common for a crossing to be blocked by stationary (usually queuing rather than broken down) traffic. Although this would be handled slightly differently in reality than in Simsig (stop the sequence, with the entrance barriers down if possible, and wait for the crossing to clear before continuing), I don't think it'd add much to the experience - in the absence of a simulated CCTV monitor, it's always going to be a compromise, and I think Simsig's got it about right. I would support the suggestion that it'd be more authentic to receive the "crossing blocked" message before "crossing clear" is pressed (but not, as Max appears to be suggesting, before the barriers have finished lowering) - we are, of course, expected to confirm that the crossing's clear before pressing the button. Perhaps the signals could still be allowed to clear with the crossing blocked (there's nothing to stop it in reality, of course), resulting in a severe penalty! Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 20:10 #68025 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
" said:I once watched a signaller bounce the barrier off the roof of a car that tried to jump the lights. Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 17/01/2015 at 20:26 #68027 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
One of my colleagues has certainly bounced a barrier off the bonnet of a car that stopped in response to the red lights, but unfortunately didn't do so until he was well past the stop line. Despite hovering it above the bonnet, the following vehicle making plenty of room for him to reverse and lots of gesticulating, the only course of action that remained was to gently drop the barrier a little further to give a slightly stronger hint! I've nearly done it too, in this case with a red light jumper who decided that he wasn't going to make it across, but unfortunately made the decision too late to stop! He had to reverse back off the crossing very quickly indeed - with my attention at that moment focussed on the far side of the crossing, the first I knew of it was when I looked back to my left to see the descending barrier only just missing the retreating bonnet. Log in to reply |
| How do I know when road traffic has cleared Appleford LC? 18/01/2015 at 12:30 #68047 | |
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GW43125
495 posts |
" said:Heard about someone who wouldn't move from under the barrier, despite three attempts of raise and relower, so the signaller just hit them on the head! Log in to reply |